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Author Topic: How to create a good legend/prophecy  (Read 321 times)

Lumaria

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How to create a good legend/prophecy
« on: May 29, 2016, 03:20:44 pm »
Every time I read an in-story legend or prophecy or historical event or any form of background information that is needed to understand how the world of one's story works, they usually have some very distinct flaws that never get worked on. So I decided to make a list of some do's and don'ts to help figure it out.

Choosing a tone:
When creating a legend, tone is very important. Most people make the mistake of not trying to find a single tone. There are three possible ways a legend (for a first chapter) can be told.

The first is the perspective of one of the main character or supporting character, gives emphasis on what s/he believes is the best part, uses some hear-say verbiage and may not know the entire story behind it.

The second is told by a narrator. The Narrator can be an undefined character designed only to explain The protecy/legend or a specific character established in the story. There are common tropes of Narration.

The first narrative style is the historian format. Often depicting the background information using specific dates, specific names and the name of the era. Also explains the current relationship between nations or countries (if relevant) in a more technical format.

The second narrative style is the oracle, this version is what most people want to  attempt. Emotion is added in rather than being technical. They use colorful words and describe the events in a more poetic tone.

Keep it Linear:
I don't know why people make some legends/prophecies non linear but it's difficult to follow and understand. Legends should be easy to understand and somewhat simple when used as an introduction. Don't mix up events. From beginning to end. Don't start in the middle or the end.

Make sure it has meaning:
This is mostly related to prophecies but it could apply to legends as well. Usually the prophecy is foretelling an event in the future but it has to be connected to the events in the legend/past.

Think of them like ghost stories. When you hear a ghost story, you don't just add a random event alongside the scary part. People will be confused. People want to know the reason why ghosts are haunting a specific location.

In the same way, you can't just make everything feel random or just for the sake of having a bad guy or a good guy.

Keep it simple:
For an introduction, keep it simple. You can expand on it as the story goes on. But this seems to be a serious problem that goes alongsise from the first issue of not explaining events properly.

every time I see people reveal specific details that don't hold any important until later on and the introduction ends up becoming too long and too much to process. So again, best to keep it simple and whatever specific aspect you want to cover in detail can in a more relevant time.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 06:42:44 pm by Lumaria »

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Orchid

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 10:40:54 pm »
I sometimes read original stories where they are just too weird and I don't understand it at all. I remember reading an original story about a futuristic world where aliens, androids and humans coexisted. Does that count as a legend/prophecy?????

Probably not but I think it's somewhat connected.

guest4

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 11:30:55 am »
I sometimes read original stories where they are just too weird and I don't understand it at all. I remember reading an original story about a futuristic world where aliens, androids and humans coexisted. Does that count as a legend/prophecy?????

Probably not but I think it's somewhat connected.
That is set in the future , so unless there's a statement in the summary and/or in-story that implies anything to do with the past , it does not count as a legend/prophecy .

Lumaria

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2016, 12:07:27 am »
Im usually talking about an event that happens before the story begins to help it. But if the background information isnt using a proper theme or even trying to be definitive, then there are problems.

Crackhead Johny

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2016, 03:08:33 pm »
For legends and prophesies you take one of the basic story lines and run with it. It will be basic and mostly lack detail and description that you would have with something that is happening or something that happened and hasn't had time for story tellers to have their way with it yet.

With legends you take it over the top. How over the top depends on whether you want the legendary character to show up or the legend to come true again.
With prophesies you make it vague. The best prophesies can "come true" many times.

Crackhead Johny

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 03:26:32 pm »
Every time I read an in-story legend or prophecy as an introduction, they usually have some very distinct flaws. So I decided to make a list of some do's and don'ts to help figure it out.

Choosing a tone:
When creating a legend, tone is very important. Most people make the mistake of not trying to find a single tone. There are three possible ways a legend (for a first chapter) can be told. The first is the perspective of one of the main character or supporting character, gives emphasis on what s/he believes is the best part, uses some hear-say verbiage and may not know the entire story behind it. The second is told by narrative. But the narrator also can tell it different ways too. The rest is the historian format (gives specific dates, gives specific names and the name of the era). The second is more of an oracle, this version is what most people want to  attempt. They use colorful words and describe the events in a more poetic tone. This is probably the biggest flaw I see in almost every story that's in WIP.

Keep it Linear:
I don't know why people make some legends/prophecies non linear but it's difficult to follow and understand. Legends should be easy to understand and somewhat simple when used as an introduction. Don't mix up events. From beginning to end.

Make sure it has meaning:
This is mostly related to prophecies but it could apply to legends as well. Usually the prophecy is foretelling an event in the future but it has to be connected to the events in the legend/past. Think of them like ghost stories. When you hear a ghost story, you don't just add a random event alongside the scary part. People will be confused.

Keep it simple:
For an introduction, keep it simple. You can expand on it as the story goes on. But every time I see people reveal specific details, the introduction ends up becoming too long. So again, best to keep it simple and whatever specific aspect you want to cover in detail can in a more relevant time.
What you are trying to say is not clear at all, so it feels like an idea popped into your head and didn't get vetted before it got written.

"The rest is the historian format (gives specific dates, gives specific names and the name of the era)"
This fails at legend as hard as you can fail at legend.  If you have specific dates you have a history lesson or news report.
Legends happen at a time when a story could not be recorded  and thus got passed on as a story by word of mouth. This is how you get "long long ago" and "Long before our father's fathers did X.." story teller after story teller takes the story and embellishes it as they pass it on.

" There are three possible ways a legend (for a first chapter) can be told. The first is the perspective of one of the main character or supporting character"
Absolutely not. That is a story not a legend.
A legend is told as a past event whose details have been inflated by getting passed from story teller to story teller. A direct account is just a story even if that is how some legends start. Think of Jack the Giant Killer in this regard, this covers how a story becomes legend.
The difference between legends and fairy tales is that legends are claimed to be true. A good legend is a fairy tale.

Lumaria

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 05:41:38 pm »
What you are trying to say is not clear at all, so it feels like an idea popped into your head and didn't get vetted before it got written.

"The rest is the historian format (gives specific dates, gives specific names and the name of the era)"
This fails at legend as hard as you can fail at legend.  If you have specific dates you have a history lesson or news report.
Legends happen at a time when a story could not be recorded  and thus got passed on as a story by word of mouth. This is how you get "long long ago" and "Long before our father's fathers did X.." story teller after story teller takes the story and embellishes it as they pass it on.

" There are three possible ways a legend (for a first chapter) can be told. The first is the perspective of one of the main character or supporting character"
Absolutely not. That is a story not a legend.
A legend is told as a past event whose details have been inflated by getting passed from story teller to story teller. A direct account is just a story even if that is how some legends start. Think of Jack the Giant Killer in this regard, this covers how a story becomes legend.
The difference between legends and fairy tales is that legends are claimed to be true. A good legend is a fairy tale.
you're concerned too much about semantics. Although, truthfully in Manga it's a very very fine line.

The goal is to know what tone you want because the tone will help you decide if you want it as a legend and/or prophecy or a historical event. Especially when it's used as the prologue/backstory for a Manga or even western comics.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 02:01:27 am by Lumaria »

Orchid

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2016, 04:58:24 pm »
I tried digital and gave up instantly. Too much hand eye coordination for me

Lumaria

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 08:36:48 pm »
I expanded slightly on it. But not much. I may expand more soon.

Crackhead Johny

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2018, 06:28:23 am »
What you are trying to say is not clear at all, so it feels like an idea popped into your head and didn't get vetted before it got written.

"The rest is the historian format (gives specific dates, gives specific names and the name of the era)"
This fails at legend as hard as you can fail at legend.  If you have specific dates you have a history lesson or news report.
Legends happen at a time when a story could not be recorded  and thus got passed on as a story by word of mouth. This is how you get "long long ago" and "Long before our father's fathers did X.." story teller after story teller takes the story and embellishes it as they pass it on.

" There are three possible ways a legend (for a first chapter) can be told. The first is the perspective of one of the main character or supporting character"
Absolutely not. That is a story not a legend.
A legend is told as a past event whose details have been inflated by getting passed from story teller to story teller. A direct account is just a story even if that is how some legends start. Think of Jack the Giant Killer in this regard, this covers how a story becomes legend.
The difference between legends and fairy tales is that legends are claimed to be true. A good legend is a fairy tale.
you're concerned too much about semantics. Although, truthfully in Manga it's a very very fine line.

The goal is to know what tone you want because the tone will help you decide if you want it as a legend and/or prophecy or a historical event. Especially when it's used as the prologue/backstory for a Manga or even western comics.
Oh Jesus no!!
All you want is a good story with solid bone structure.
Could be a book, manga, anime, movie, etc
What you create is just supposed to be good. There are no excuses for plagiarism.
You want to go homage? Rough territory. Good luck if you make it work.

Lumaria

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2018, 05:03:19 pm »
Unfortunately saying it like that sometimes don't grasp of aswell. I've seen countless and countless of stories where they make a prologue dedicated to exposition where they don't even know how to get structure. So if you know a better explanation where they grasp it the first time, please mention it here

Orchid

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2018, 04:19:09 pm »
Let's keep thesarcasm much lower when it comes to pages designed to help. If you think there is a better guideline or tips or find these tips completely unhelpful then please use constructive criticism.

Crackhead Johny

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2018, 09:33:52 pm »
OK lets make it easier. Your average consumer is a moron. They feel about things they do not think about things. So lets simplify.
Women's evolutionary power base is sex. It is great and amazing and got us from small group scavengers to the moon. 
Men's evolutionary power base is violence. It kept wolves, bears, and other men out of our caves while the women figured things out.

Now as anime primarily markets to young males you have to look at the evolutionary power base and ask "Why do women not out number men 20+:1 if men's power base leads them to kill each other?"

Well for that we have to look at adaptations. Violent men were valuable even when women judged them unacceptable for passing on genes. The way our species dealt with this is "hero worship" (and the unfortunate r4pe during wars/battles/raids).
Males can avoid violence by living vicariously through the victories of their heroes. You can look at citations for the affects of sports team win/loss on male T levels or you can simply look at male human animal years with "my dad can beat up your dad"; it is wired in.

So to cater to this makes legend/prophesy creation easy. Just cater to the wiring.

Oh Jesus, I though we cleaned up the censoring years ago. we are writers not children.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 09:39:23 pm by Crackhead Johny »

Lumaria

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 02:19:21 am »
I think at this point. It's clear you're simply trolling. I do believe the general audience are moron. Anime and manga includes recently. However I believe that even morons can distinguish why something is good and bad.


Your advise doesn't apply to this. You're just making a comment on advise in general.

guest4

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Re: How to create a good legend/prophecy
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2018, 05:28:49 am »
OK lets make it easier. Your average consumer is a moron. They feel about things they do not think about things. So lets simplify.
Women's evolutionary power base is sex. It is great and amazing and got us from small group scavengers to the moon. 
Men's evolutionary power base is violence. It kept wolves, bears, and other men out of our caves while the women figured things out.

Now as anime primarily markets to young males you have to look at the evolutionary power base and ask "Why do women not out number men 20+:1 if men's power base leads them to kill each other?"

Well for that we have to look at adaptations. Violent men were valuable even when women judged them unacceptable for passing on genes. The way our species dealt with this is "hero worship" (and the unfortunate r4pe during wars/battles/raids).
Males can avoid violence by living vicariously through the victories of their heroes. You can look at citations for the affects of sports team win/loss on male T levels or you can simply look at male human animal years with "my dad can beat up your dad"; it is wired in.

So to cater to this makes legend/prophesy creation easy. Just cater to the wiring.

Oh Jesus, I though we cleaned up the censoring years ago. we are writers not children.
Here's the thing, you can opt to not to do all of the above down to its letter, right?

The root of a story that can stand the test of time is a story that is able to make an impression and/or connection to the readers of all ages, gender, beliefs and standing right at their core. If one can do that, regardless if it doesn't cater to their "primitive" desire or the norm of their genders, somehow someway it may leave an impression on their mind, no matter how dumb they may be.

I know the manga/comic market is saturated with all the cliches and tropes, but if you're sensible and aware enough, you'd see that such work would cease to exist the moment another of its "clone" makes its debut. It's like taking drugs.

But that doesn't mean as a writer/creator, you'd self-imposed a ban on incorporating such cliches into your story - you can. If you're creative enough, you can do so without harming the true intention/purpose of the story itself.

Give them 'you' or give them 'an inflatable doll'. Your call.

 

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