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Author Topic: What manga should we be inspired by?  (Read 399 times)

Lumaria

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What manga should we be inspired by?
« on: January 13, 2016, 05:20:23 pm »
Ive seen too many amateur writers get inspired by the wrong series. Thats not to say that the manga they take inspiration is bad manga. But some people take inspiration at it from a purely  shallow level.

One Piece, Dragon Ball, and Naruto are the common shonen manga stories that people want to take inspiration. Usually for the wrong reasons. Specifically, the main character. Most of these characters have an off putting, happy-go-lucky, and annoying quality. What many amateur writers tend to ignore is adding the thing that keeps us writing. Thats the skin-deep but it's the core features that make these characters work. One Piece and Naruto's main both share the quality of loyalty and determination. Naruto has the added benefit of being more of a delinquent and not generally accepted as to why he acts the way he does.

Here's another example for artists who want more detailed artstyle. Bleach tends to be a common inspiration when it comes to Ichigo. But certain amateur artist only grasp the "too cool to care" attitude. Which isn't bad, but there's no originality added to it. This archetype makes it harder to relate to and slower to find out information.

Here are manga and even anime to get inspired from:

Fullmetal alchemist. This series in terms of abilities is very unique. Its basic, but offers limitless potential. But it is also not overpowered. There's a certain "science" to it that works. Additionally, these characters have a stretched goal but they have a clear path. This is what most amateur writers don't overcome.

Death Note. This series more on how clever and how detailed the planning gets. Also by turning impossible situations and realistically turning it around. One more is how characters work. Specifically the supporting characters. They we're more grounded to reality.

Also wanted to note for both Fullmetal Alchemist and Death Note, both of them do not waste their characters. All their characters become more and more relevant as they continue. Even seemingly forgotten characters return. I know other series do it, but these two do it so apparent.


But this is a workshop. So what manga do you believe writers should be inspired from and not inspired from?


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Paipis

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 01:38:58 am »
I'm convinced that if there is something an artist likes about any piece of art, they can't write it off, even if they choose not to use it because it's overused or something of the sort. It's a key part of developing voice and style. If you think about how you even start writing, it consists mainly of imitating these things. Even professional writers do this, actually. The difference, however, is that good professional writers are more preceptive readers and watchers. They are more attuned to the precise, deeper things that work for them which allows them to steal things without imitating. For instance, it may be a contrast between the happy-go-luckiness and the deeper traits of characters like Naruto or Luffy that a writer likes, but instead of imitating that exact model they might plug in different superficial and deeper traits.

I guess my main point in this is that it doesn't matter quite as much what works, specifically, you take influence from, but your perceptiveness as a reader and watcher. What helps is to experience many works in many genres, particularly lauded ones. Reading and watching things in many different genres can give insight into old favorites and provide more points of reference for future readings/watchings.

So yeah, if anybody hasn't watched Fullmetal Alchemist and Death Note, they should. There are also loads of great works they should experience as well that aren't within the Action Shonen or Shonen umbrellas. Or even the manga/anime umbrella. The Human Centipede, for instance...







...is definitely not one of them.

Lumaria

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 01:42:55 am »
Definitely, but there are certain mangas to take inspiration that are rigged with traps. The opens i mentioned above. It would be good it make those traps more apparent.

EDIT:
Also, you almost had me at Human Centipede.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 01:46:46 am by Lumaria »

Paipis

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 02:11:36 am »
Agreed, that's why it's good to compare and contrast them with other lauded works. I haven't read as much manga as I've seen anime, to be honest, but, along with FMA and Death Note, Urasawa's works stand as highlights among what I've read, even though he tends to stave off development of the main character and resolution of the conflict a little too long just so he can introduce a hundred other characters. But he does provide a good bit of background on those characters which grounds them pretty well. He also has a great deal of not-attractive characters, which I find interesting. I think he also does open endings effectively, in that they generally compel the reader to think back through the plot and piece things together, even though sometimes he leaves a little to much to the imagination. Still they're fun reads. I've been waiting for a 20th Century Boys anime for a while now.

John Will

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 04:14:27 am »
You have a good point, Lumaria. The worst manga in circulation, in my opinion, is Black Clover. It blatantly and shamelessly imitates One Piece and Naruto. It should be important that we as creators move away from taking inspiration from drained ideas as to not perpetuate unoriginality.

The biggest tragedy of today's storytelling medium is that there hasn't been a brand new, distinctive genre in over a century (or more?). Sure there's sub-genres and crossovers, but the fact that we have a mental block on creating something completely new, even as an impossibility, is sad. Maybe it is impossible, I mean, a genre can be seen as something a story simply falls under. I don't know about any of you, but to me I don't think I can even comprehend anything new.

Anyway, I do have some suggestions:

Osamu Tezuka: Honestly, anything by him is important. He invented the 'Story Manga', which has immortalized manga as what it is today. He's touched on (and built structures for) every genre and done it better than anyone else. He isn't called the "God of Manga" in Japan for nothing.

Akira: This classic has amazing direction and it's story is epic and mind boggling at times.

Dragonball: I know, maybe the most torn to shreds of em' all. The reason I bring this up is that putting aside dragonball's bad rep, it has many redeeming qualities. For one: It's depiction of action. Most manga these days have very unclear action depictions, they can take lots of time to realize what is actually on the page. But dragonball's action is very clear, and I think that is very important. Also the flow of action is very precise and smooth.

Other than that I really can't suggest much more, personally my inspiration has turned from manga to other things such as movies, art, books, and even music. I believe that in order to nourish and grow the quality of today's manga we need to look to outside mediums and integrate them.

Another important endeavor is to study and question manga in depth, don't just think "That's cool, I'm going to use that" while studying manga, but instead take some time and ask yourself why you find it cool, it's use, and how you can use it or even tweak it to your own style.

In closing, here are some movies I'd like to suggest as inspiration:

Alien: It's important to study the classics of a certain genre, and when it comes to sci-fi and suspense what is more suiting than the classic Alien? I recommend you take time and analyze the cinematography, pacing, momentum, and how they introduce and depict their characters (I think they are done quite brilliantly).

Citizen Kane: Everything.

Mad Max Fury Road: This is an amazing source of amazing action and it's sequences are ruthlessly gripping.

The Dark Knight: I'm not a fan of Chistopher Nolan's Batman, but damn this movie is a masterpiece. It's interesting to see how a bizarre character like The Joker can enter any situation and completely imbue it with intrigue and surprise.

Whiplash: The cinematography and character progression is mind blowing in this modern classic. You will leave this movie so full of energy and inspiration that you'll burst out into dance! But on a serious note it is important to observe how the characters grow in the movie and how their inner personalities come out to play.

That is all I have for now, I hope it helps someone.
"...And make use of the life bestowed upon him." - Hi no Tori, Osamu Tezuka

Paipis

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 01:35:46 pm »
Still need to watch Citizen Kane. It's an embarrassing gap in my watching experience (not that there aren't a lot of those), and I love Orson Welle's other most lauded film, The Third Man.

Whiplash is definitely a great movie for all the reasons you say, but it is also an interesting study in accurately conveying its subject, in that it absolutely does not do that. It seems not interested at all in realism, not even specific emotions, but tension, and exaggerates whatever it needs to to build up tension. (A 20-minute drum solo is that last thing that would go over well at a jazz education conference, Fletcher is the furthest thing from a good jazz educator, Andrew Neiman never practices with a metronome and only practices double-time swing).

By contrast, a quick look at the author bio and thank you's in Memoirs of a Geisha reveals how much research actually needs to go into those subject sometimes. Arthur Golden had, himself, a Masters in Japanese history, and talked with several experts, geisha, and other people who simply lived during the Depression/World War II. It's attention to historical detail is stunning and its realism lends its emotional properties weight. Both Memoirs and Whiplash ask "how much research should a writer do?"

New genres, hmm. Does post-modernism count? It's not particularly new, but less than a century old. Then there's post-postmodernism. Seems like someone should come up with better names.

John Will

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 09:09:52 pm »
I need to get my hands on Memoirs of a Geisha, I hear so much about it. Usually when I buy books I go straight to the classics section and only pick from there, but I can assume memoirs of a geisha would be amongst them.

"...And make use of the life bestowed upon him." - Hi no Tori, Osamu Tezuka

Lumaria

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 02:57:26 am »
If we're going to use Dragon Ball, i highly recommend the manga format over the anime. Here's reasons wy. Although it was the anime that really turned shonen into a genre of its own (even though its not),  it pushed for more.

I also do NOT recommend Mad Max: Fury Road. At least in terms of story. Mad Max barely got away with its story. barely. and it was because of the action it presented. But just like "Avatar", people will see the flaws, and soon forget the movie.

John Will

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2016, 03:19:47 am »
Yes, the manga has the quality that the anime lacks due to it catching up with the manga (as well as each chapter being 14 or so pages long, Toriyama got away with it because he started it as a gag manga, those usually be that short)

And I agree about mad max, action is the only focus, which works, but the story is bland and uninteresting. It's amazing that even with a weak story a lot of the best movies shine past it with fantastic quality elsewhere. Still, with a bad story you will always walk away from the movie feeling that something is missing, or disappointing, regardless of how much you are blown away by everything else.
"...And make use of the life bestowed upon him." - Hi no Tori, Osamu Tezuka

Crackhead Johny

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2016, 04:44:52 pm »
Naruto Bleach Z is a great inspiration and serves as an example of what not to do. I speak from a quality stand point and not form a success/profit standpoint. You want to make money with garbage here is a step by step guide on how to make Naruto Bleach Z, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/WriteAShonenSeries

For art inspiration There are the likes of Otomo and Miyazaki and others who get imitated. There there are others like Yukito Kishiro who do not get imitated as it would take too much work. I'd love to see more Kishiro imitators. From an art stand point the big thing is first learn how to draw real people, really well and then adapt them to manga look, this will help prevent the "teenage American manga artist" look. You know the look, you have seen it on desks and school folders.

When it comes to story telling drawing inspiration from just manga is a huge mistake. While you have people like Satoshi Kon turning out good fresh stuff in his anime (not any more) most manga is imitation of bad original content.

As manga is just a medium it would be best if you had a broad experience with all stories and thus have more to draw from.

If you thought those Mocking Jay movies were garbage, go hit up the manga that got ripped off Battle Royale.

As for Citizen Kane it is the most over rated movie of all time. There is a very good reason for this. It is the movie where Hollywood fought the power and won. They will spend eternity patting themselves on the back about that, even though they have become the evil power to be stood up against, just like when Orson Welles stood up against the insane power of William Randolph Hearst. See RKO 281 id you watch Kane.
If you want to be a critic you have to love it (those are the rules) and you have to pat Hollywood on the back.

Watch Being There.
Watch Blade Runner
Wathc Mamaro Oshis's stuff
Wathc Satoshi Kon's stuff
Watch Otomo's stuff (especially his collections, Neo Tokyo, Short Peace, Robot Carnival, and best of all Memories.)
Miyazaki stuff

M Night shamalamadingdong brought the plot twist front and center and shows the dangers of being a one trick pony.
Watch Star Wars and The Hidden Fortress back to back to learn how to rip off other's work.
The magnificent 7 and The 7 samurai back to back to learn how to rip off and regionalize/retell.
Watch A Clock Work Orange
Read 1984, A Brave New World, Animal Farm, Fahrenheit 451 (original asbestos cover if you can find it :) ), READ Harrison Bergeron to understand tumblr,  A wizard of Earthsea (not the anime!!!!!), Neuromancer (to learn awesome prose), Snowcrash, Aristoi (a new way to write stories), KW Jeter's NOIR ( a modern 1984. heck, read most of his books, he has fresh ideas). The Sandman Slim series to learn how to drip cool on your stuff. A Fire on The Sun/When Gravity Fails (learn you some Islam!). The Moon is a Harsh Mistress,
Watch Once Upon a Time in the West and old spaghetti westerns to refine your baddest man alive/man on a mission.

Most of all, live life, do new stuff and always talk to people as well as just watch them.

As a story teller, if you want to make manga by being inspired by manga, you are in a closed loop and are just waiting to rip off the next big thing. It is like digging through the toilets of people who just ate at 3 Michelin star restaurants and thinking what you take from there and serve will allow you to open your own 3 star restaurant.
As an artist, once you are good at real humans and real humans in action, then it is time to learn to do everyone's style, like an art forger. Then just draw for a few years and see what your style looks like.
 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 04:48:31 pm by Crackhead Johny »

Lumaria

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2016, 05:21:17 pm »
What you are focusing on is being heavily close to another series. For manga however many people follow the same manga anime couches because that's all they read about.

And of course there are people who get so inspired by one mamga that it becomes near carbon copy. However, the problem I see in a lot of people is that they do not have enough perception and copy them at face value.

To me, it's not what came first but how it's done differently. If people take multiple inspirations rather than one single series, they can do better.

But unfortunately a lot of amateur writers and artist want to be just like these series.

Crackhead Johny

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2016, 11:33:43 pm »
But unfortunately a lot of amateur writers and artist want to be just like these series.
Looking at a lot of TV most "professional" writers are exactly the same.

Sturgeon's law - ninety percent of everything is crap

it is alarming how this can be applied.


Lumaria

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Re: What manga should we be inspired by?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2016, 07:20:25 pm »
But unfortunately a lot of amateur writers and artist want to be just like these series.
Looking at a lot of TV most "professional" writers are exactly the same.

Sturgeon's law - ninety percent of everything is crap

it is alarming how this can be applied.


I would agree 90% is crap. Doesn't mean we all should aim for the 90%. I do want to say that TV isn't even a respected medium anymore. I honestly believe TV started off crappy.

 

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