+- +-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 40
Latest: divyarai
New This Month: 0
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 2158
Total Topics: 152
Most Online Today: 3
Most Online Ever: 9
(April 05, 2017, 04:46:45 am)
Users Online
Members: 0
Guests: 1
Total: 1

Author Topic: You're Not Real  (Read 866 times)

Lumaria

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Reviewer
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2017, 04:05:35 am »
The only thing I disagree with are claims against me as a person. Perhaps if you reviewed the story instead of attacking me, you might have seen that progress. I admit I used to argue for the sake of the story because I had pride in it. But I don't do that anymore.
And now you don't you only have pride in yourself. Which means any flaws coming from you can't be questioned when writing stories.

Quote
I think in pictures, I read this script seeing the final copy and calculating ways to illustrate it. I don't see this as the text that it is, but you do, and so that's why I don't discredit everything you say and that's why there is clearly a disconnect in the way you experience it from the way I experience it. The things I write about are the things that interest me, so when I read works from others that are this way, I'm completely comfortable with it.

And you may not be comfortable with that, and many people may not be comfortable with that.

This is why you are questioned. As a person. You do what you are comfortable, you don't change your method. You admit this causes a disconnect between how you experience the story and how readers do. And you still do it.


Quote
It is a complete lie that I have made no progress at all. And yes, I can say that with the only credible voice being myself. For the same reason that I can say that my artwork now is better than my artwork when I was 3 years old. You have a right to believe what you want, but I personally don't fancy believing in lies. I shouldn't have to show you Sentieria Legends for you to know that. But I'm no Leonardo Da Vinci, there's still improvements to be made, but improvements have been made.
your characters are as bland and tasteless as they were from Sentiera Legend. They're either Mary Sue or Anti-Sue. Tell me when have you made a character where the world doesn't gravitate around them and have both defining redeeming qualities and flaws that you can see in script form?

I want to clarify that your concepts aren't always bad. Sentiera as a concept was bad but your flaw has always been mainly your characters. You don't know what makes a good readable character worth reading. I'm tired of explaining this.

Why I was hopeful at first: Because you have a story concept that by description focuses on character development. All you have to do is focus on the development itself. The potential in development is there.

What is stopping me to read the story:

Without the fantasy genre for you to give an excuse as to why you're not giving any development to these characters, your story should at least have more depth and distinct personalities. And yet lacks characters even more.

Jeremy is a sociopath. He expects the world to go in his favor and doesn't recognize his extreme flaws. He doesn't disapoint. Disappoint implies I have hopes and expectations from Him.  I do not. He is scum.

Amyrie acts just like a figment of a sociopath social inept person's imagination. She cares for him at an extreme level that only makes sense as a imaginary girlfriend. Which for that reason I do not see her as a character just a figment of someone's imagination. She does EXACTLY what an imaginary friend does.

But it goes further than that. Imaginary friends are just that "Imaginary". they are things people create to pass the time or fill a void. Jeremy does this but at an extreme. Chapter 1 he calls Amyrie back as if she was real and depends on her as of she was real.

No...Amyrie does not make the story redeemable. Jeremy is the worst character. He is a character that I do not enjoy reading. He does the most extreme actions such as attempting to kill himself over a girl who doesn't like him and then suddenly his friends just joke about it as if that's normal. And Jeremy who discovers it's nor.al for the first time gives me huge red flags as to what YOU the author passes off as normal.

None of his friends matter they're just excuses to move the story forward. They all have the same generic tone and so do the girls. Nichols suddenly gets his number and them tells him he only likes her as a friend. Nothing works in this story. And it's not because the concept is flawed. These characters are just ridiculous.


I'm out.....i don't want to hear excuses as to why you did it the way you did. I'm tired of repeating myself to you what makes a good character. You don't listen and do the same process.





« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 04:09:55 am by Lumaria »

Tara

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • Gawvi get em
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2017, 11:09:39 pm »
Lets say I do in fact have a mental block that is preventing me from writing a compelling story. What is your solution? What does someone do here in the event that they are suffering from a cognitive dysfunction? Instead of me explaining anything, let's just talk about this.

Tara

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • Gawvi get em
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2017, 12:35:31 am »
That's exactly what I'm saying here. That's the problem I have with you and DeAngelus. Your criticism is not constructive. It has nothing to do with solving any problems. DeAngelus is going to go on every one of my posts and use the "dumb" reaction. That's not constructive, doesn't solve any problems. If you had a person like her in Human Resources your business would fall apart. Here you are wondering why the same problems come up again and again because you've never been constructive about the way you criticize something.

You should be happy when I say, "no I don't have a mental block" because that would mean that there is room for improvement. Instead you're upset saying "how dare you argue with me". If I have a mental block that I can't get past, then it's time to just delete the documents and give up. Giving up is not constructive. You said it yourself you don't like when I leave a story behind. Why? Because it's not constructive to give up. I quit because your criticism is destructive. You destroyed Sentieria and you destroyed FNO. The worst part is you're doing the same thing I did. It's hypocritical

Everytime you feel like it's not going anywhere, you give up. And you have the nerve to call me out for doing the same thing. You destroyed my stories and then you're wondering where did they go? They're gone. I didn't let you destroy my artwork though. Nothing you ever told me was relevant. "Your hands are too small." What does that mean? Hands should be big enough, that if you put one over your face it would cover half your face. You expect me to just figure that out. Notice how there is almost no correlation to your criticism and what I wrote in orange. I figured this out when I observed the way people weep with both hands over their face.

Jeremy is a sociopath. There's no questioning that. But saying "jeremy is a sociopath" doesn't do a damn thing for me. I've criticized the way people have criticized my work. One dude told me to just google anatomy. I said I could have done that without you telling me, and he got offended. It was stupid criticism especially since that was something I was already doing, and it wasn't working. He got offended because I criticized his criticism. It wasn't until I learned proportion theory that I could draw anatomy properly from imagination. You don't learn proportion theory by looking up humans without their skin.

It may not be your intention to destroy. It may be your intention to be constructive. But it is also my intention that you shouldn't hate my characters. It doesn't matter what your intentions are if you're not doing it right. I don't think you've ever had someone criticize your criticism. Surprise, that is also a skill that must be developed. I have a lot of other skills and I just learned a new skill this week. Operating a motorized rider jack and fork lift, very different from driving a car. I can draw, sing, write academic work, etc, and every single one of those skills required someone constantly telling me what I was doing wrong. And it wasn't fun to be wrong. And it required a lot of effort and time investment to become competent at every one of those skills.

But you're under the impression that writing stories is the only skill I haven't become competent at. The one thing that those skills didn't have that writing does is you. You are the variable here and the only place you don't see results in is the one you're involved in. You spend a lot of time evaluating me, but how often do you evaluate yourself? Since you enjoy scrutinizing things that are not up for scrutiny why don't we talk about you? Because this topic clearly isn't about "You're not real".

You're going to say "yes I did tell you how to fix these problems" and I'm gong to say no you have not. And I will say it in bold with orange colored text. Because someone else told me that my characters aren't proportioned properly and that a human is 8 heads tall. So I measured it out and drew a person 8 heads tall, and they were proportioned properly. Later I switched to 6 heads because I thought it was cuter. Why is that not happening here? Notice they solved the problem but they didn't have to draw it for me. They may have had to draw a template character to show me all the proportions but they didn't have to draw the exact character I was trying to draw.

That's how destructive your criticism is. The only way you can convey how to do it properly is by writing the story for me. You hand me a fish, and you expect me to just know how to fish. The crazy part is I'm willing to accept that this is a skill that I need to improve on, but what about you?

I'm not going to post here anymore because this forum is empty. You 3 are the only people who post here and if you and DeAngelus aren't interested in constructive criticism then I have no reason to post here. I have no reason to beg for your forgiveness. This conversation has shown me exactly how much of a disservice it would be for me to even ask that.

I only posted here to give the forum some activity since I have nothing against Orchid who is very interested in this forum growing. Who'd want to join a forum whose last activity was 6 months ago. Ironically, ya'll need me around though because otherwise you've got nothing else to talk about.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 12:39:15 am by Tara »
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

guest4

  • Guest
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2017, 02:49:41 am »
^^^

TL;DR

You had no clue as to the relation between a mental state of one's mind and the kind of story/message it'll bear . I was optimistic when you ask for the why . So while I'm writing out chapters , I also wrote out a post that is a reply to that inquiry .

So yes , you've squandered the last optimism of mine by being utterly impatient and posting that . Congratulations ! Talk about not caring about the fact that we have a working life too and we can't be on 24/7 .

And me giving you a 'dumb' badge does not only mean that you're making posts that is too nonsensical that it's not worth replying to , especially with what I've learnt just by doing so with you that results in MORE nonsensical posts . It also means , or tells you to stop posting anymore of that crap and just get onto your story . All of that useless posting from you could've been better spent on actually composing more chapters , but you chose not to . That is a severe case of butthurt . Apparently , you've never respond any further to anything that I've offered the 'dumb' badge , right ? Well it worked , until now .

And for your information , this is not even remotely constructive at all . It's just you waving your pretentious supremacy without even realizing that one , I'm my own artist to my own story , two , it's a legit (If there is ever one that is universal) format that is considered acceptable to the manga/comic industry , my local industry whom I've been publishing to is included and three , this is my profession (storyteller , not writing) , 10+ years and still going , despite still being a part-time work for me . You couldn't even read the first paragraph of the first post at all to see that it WAS , IS and HAD a storyboard going on for it in my head , but I chose to WRITE it out .

If what you've written there was a legit critique and a valid one and non-offensive , think again . It's an absolute mockery and intentional degradation to my career (or anybody's) as a manga/comic artist . Not looking into the future for my story ? Right back at you and your FNO , arse-hole .

I don't think you'll receive anymore critique from here anymore , not from the two of us after sheetposting that post out , calling us out saying "we're not offering "critique" to you" - you've already got it - FOUR TIMES on FOUR STORIES ! I personally don't feel like you're not welcomed here anymore - I'm already done with your antics . I'd direct you to Absolutewrite and get your critique there . Truth be told , it's the only few sites where it's very active , has a section dedicated for stories like yours and offers ACTUAL critique that is direct and blunt , much like MangaMavericks , but I'm very sure you're going to get into the same trouble very soon that you'll run out of forums that will actually offer you actual critiques , if you know what is critique to begin with .

Leave at your own will and good luck !

EDIT : If you want a critique for art that actually offers you a service by 'drawing out the example for you' , go to Conceptart .

Lumaria

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Reviewer
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2017, 03:59:14 am »
What more can I tell you that hasn't been said? I'm tired. I can't keep explaining to you what makes a good character worth reading about because I've repeated myself multiple times. Like Dr Angelus said, we've done 4 stories at this point. And might I add that if we count every time you pressed the reset button, it's more than four. I given you more attention to than anyone else out there. I'm out on reviewing your story. HOWEVER I will never tell you to give up writing in general. But I can't do this chapter by chapter review style anymore. At least with you.

I believe you know EXACTLY what we are saying. You recognize word for word what we have issues with your story. What I notice however is that you don't acknowledge that the issues we present are "problems" to be fixed. And I noticed this trend all the way back to Sentieria.

That's why when I see you make changes, you don't fix the problem when we tell you what the problem is directly. You make changes around the issue itself. And when we are adamant that doesn't work you try again. Sometimes you give in but in those times you do not fully invest in the change that is necessary.

This isn't a video game. This isn't code. And you donr win any points when you tell me video game jargon when you are wroting your stories. In the realm of art and writing you have to make necessary changes that go against your views for the good of a better story.


But to push my point even further that you haven't been helping yourself to make it easier to improve I will say this:

REVIEW:
"You're Not Real" has a main character that is a sociopath. Not just the textbook definition of it but with all the social stereotypes of what a sociopath has. He acts normal among friends but he has twisted thoughts. He doesnt think his life through and he is aware enough to know he shouldnt be liked yet has no conscious to do anything about it. He is not enjoyable to read at all. He is the main character and by what a sociopath is, does not change. Being a sociopath isn't like a crazy person where you feel sorry for. They have the capabilities of acting like decent humans, they just choose not to. Like what Jeremy has actively been doing in the story.

He has no redeeming qualities. Things that make us empathize or tolerate him. What are those things? Giving him actual human traits. But then he wouldn't be a sociopath. He'd just be any other socially inept human. But wait...this is the same advice I had given before with Blade Regalia. To give your characters actual personality and traits of a human? To show off why they want what they want. Why they feel how they feel?

It's the same advice that never came into fruition because we were waiting for you to revise chapter 1 of blade regalia. But you made this. And I'm giving credit where credit is due you don't have bad concepts. You just very bad at making characters. You treat them like empty husks that have character personality A and character personality B but never actually develop a solid personality with human traits. You only add the stereotypes and do nothing with it.


The mental block I'm referring to is the block between you and the reader. You don't understand readers or what readers generally look for. You write what interests you first. You have no foundation. You need to look up how to write a story. I guarantee you that if you wrote down every piece of advise on how to make good characters over the year and made it into a book and read it every time you were about to start a story .






But see all this? I've said this before.....ive said this before Manga Mavericks....my advise isn't a case by case situation. When I give advise on how to make good characters it applies to general writing. What I should be saying is study character development on your own. But I was told to do my best to be nice.


But I'm out at least on reviewing your story on a chapter by chapter basis. You can choose to finish this story  (which would be nice) or choose to write something else that interests you. I may review it once it's finished. But I can't do this chapter by chapter where nothing gets truly fixed.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 04:09:31 am by Lumaria »

guest4

  • Guest
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2017, 04:36:59 am »
You know , a sociopath trait as it's own and a main is a trait for a MAIN ANTAGONIST . By giving the character with an antagonistic trait the role of a main character , it would make the ENTIRE story revolves around the point and plot that "It's perfectly okay to be **** evil !" . Nothing will turn flip it a light , not even all of that current extra "support" character - NOTHING . Not even setting as it'll be painted black the moment it's being introduced , nor the plot as as long there's a main character/focus , the plot will be mainly driven by that main character/focus and nor the conflict as it'll automatically be set to the importance of evil deeds in the good world .

There are cases where a protagonist has characteristics/personality that are meant for an antagonist but it's never being a front-line of the portrayal as a base characteristic/personality and in addition to that , the characteristics/personality are by default 'not overpowering' . If what Lumaria meant is true , then it's already a story-breaking flaw , way more worse than what I've read on Blade Regalia and FNO , which you said quote "Not worth fixing" .

I'm still being faithful to HematoLogMeIn's advice and not even offering my feedback until it's finis- Oh wait , I did wave him off personally . Bye .

Tara

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • Gawvi get em
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2017, 03:08:55 pm »
Again, telling me the hands are small doesn't tell me how big they need to be. DeAgnelus, I need you to understand there is a distinction between blunt criticism and constructive criticism. Criticism can be blunt without being constructive. Yes it can be both, but it can also be constructive without being blunt, these two things are not interdependent. Imagine if in school, instead of teaching you the alphabet, they just let you scribble lines on a piece of paper until it starts to look like a letter and every time it doesn't look like a letter they very bluntly tell you it does not look like a letter. A lot of people would not know how to write.

I don't care if you have to hold my hand or break my hand. If what you do isn't constructive I'd rather you do neither. Lumaria brought up a good point. I lose interest at the point where she believes we've made the most progress. That's a sign of destruction. Imagine I wanted to draw a female person, but I drew her poorly. Out of proportion. Doesn't look very feminine. So you offer blunt criticism, and I follow it word for word and I end up drawing a male person. He looks good, very convincing, but my goal was to draw a female. Halfway through drawing this man I'm losing interest because this wasn't my goal.

And then I go back and draw more poorly drawn females and you're wondering why I'm not drawing the male you told me how to draw because this is the only way I know how to draw a female. I would argue that's what you're seeing here. It's not that females can't be drawn it's that I haven't been given the tools to do so, hypothetically.

There is only 1 redeeming quality Jeremy can have in order to tell this story and only 1 negative quality he can have. He can't have any traits he needs very very specific traits. As well as every other character. I have 1 goal here and that's to tell a story. If I can't tell that story then there's no reason to write it. Blade Regalia has different goals, create a continuity between the characters and gameplay and be a service to the players. I know exactly what those traits are and you couldn't possibly know because you don't know the goals. You don't know the agenda behind You're Not Real. You don't know what blade regalia is like.

Let's distinguish what is being shown by the chapters and what is the agenda. Because you seem to think these are one and the same.

Jeremy is a sociopath. "He acts normal among friends but he has twisted thoughts. He doesnt think his life through and he is aware enough to know he shouldnt be liked yet has no conscious to do anything about it. He is not enjoyable to read at all. He is the main character and by what a sociopath is, does not change." He is codependent and selfish.
Jeremy is suffering from untreated clinical depression as a result of multiple social and family related issues. He is very helpful, supportive and generous to others but does little for his own sake. He has very little self esteem and self confidence. His aspirations are to have someone as supportive and helpful in his life as he is to others.

Let's look at some double standards here for a second, DeAngelus.

"And for your information , this is not even remotely constructive at all . It's just you waving your pretentious supremacy without even realizing that one , I'm my own artist to my own story , two , it's a legit (If there is ever one that is universal) format that is considered acceptable to the manga/comic industry , my local industry whom I've been publishing to is included and three , this is my profession (storyteller , not writing) , 10+ years and still going , despite still being a part-time work for me . You couldn't even read the first paragraph of the first post at all to see that it WAS , IS and HAD a storyboard going on for it in my head , but I chose to WRITE it out ."


You don't even realize what you're doing here. You just criticized my criticism and you have every right to do so. If I had done this, you would've said I was just being stubborn. But you also ignored the fact that you're spacing out your punctuation. And you're still doing it. Periods. Do. Not. Have. A. Space. in between them and the end of a sentence. I hope you do not publish manga that way. See how Lumaria and I type. We don't put a space in between the end of a sentence and its punctuation and neither does every other english speaking person. Culera.

This is something that I have to work on too. You can't just discredit everything being said when you have criticize a criticism. Sometimes you will have to do that, but sometimes they will say things that are indeed true and relevant. And I have a working life too. Do you think driving a fork lift is a personal hobby of mine?
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Lumaria

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Reviewer
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2017, 08:30:51 pm »
There is only 1 redeeming quality Jeremy can have in order to tell this story and only 1 negative quality he can have. He can't have any traits he needs very very specific traits. As well as every other character. I have 1 goal here and that's to tell a story. If I can't tell that story then there's no reason to write it. Blade Regalia has different goals, create a continuity between the characters and gameplay and be a service to the players. I know exactly what those traits are and you couldn't possibly know because you don't know the goals. You don't know the agenda behind You're Not Real. You don't know what blade regalia is like.

Let's distinguish what is being shown by the chapters and what is the agenda. Because you seem to think these are one and the same.

Jeremy is a sociopath. "He acts normal among friends but he has twisted thoughts. He doesnt think his life through and he is aware enough to know he shouldnt be liked yet has no conscious to do anything about it. He is not enjoyable to read at all. He is the main character and by what a sociopath is, does not change." He is codependent and selfish.
Jeremy is suffering from untreated clinical depression as a result of multiple social and family related issues. He is very helpful, supportive and generous to others but does little for his own sake. He has very little self esteem and self confidence. His aspirations are to have someone as supportive and helpful in his life as he is to others.
http://mangamavericks.createaforum.com/tips-and-tutorials/first-chapter-is-vital-dos-and-don't/

I've told you this multiple times in other stories... it doesn't matter what the agenda is. when your story doesn't hold up, it doesn't hold up. You're asking us to wait for the good parts and that is simply bad. And don't tell me you aren't because you are using what you are planning as an excuse to why your characters are bad.

I take writing very seriously. You know in writing conventions (for those without an agent) common practice publishers would do is take your manuscript have a bunch of people read only the first page and ask them if they would read the second page. If they said no they drop it and move on.If they say yes they ask why. ON THE FIRST PAGE!!! Think about that while I tell you your chapter doesn't hold up. Suddenly it's more than fair.

With that said:
Jeremy is suffering from untreated clinical depression as a result of multiple social and family related issues.
^^I can tell you already nothing will justify his current behavior. Absolutely nothing.

He is very helpful, supportive and generous to others but does little for his own sake.
He tried to kill himself through love char over a pretty typical break up. This worries me how you find it ok that is there. That is NOT normal and NOT ok he doesn't need friends to tell him that break ups are normal in order for him to know this. Its part of life. He was acting selfish. He was not helpful. He was not generous and he was doing all of it for his own sake.

He has very little self esteem and self confidence. His aspirations are to have someone as supportive and helpful in his life as he is to others.
Yes he has plethora of self confidence. He semi stalked a girl believing he was dating her over a misunderstanding. He acts perfectly normal around his friends. His aspirations are really bad. These aren't good traits and they don't make up for what you wrote. You add this in following chapters and it already conflicting.

You would rather argue than fix tour story. I told you what the problem is. I'm not going to tell you how to fix it. Because I absolutely want you to try your hardest. Or finish the story without any reviews.

Tara

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • Gawvi get em
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2017, 04:26:47 am »
Whoa whoa, back up. Back up very far. I'm not using anything as an excuse. How can you possibly interpret my words this backwards. And you have the gall, no, the audacity to question my mental health. I need a moment to take in the fact that you're actually doing this.

So clearly I need to break apart my own statements because you seem to have no skill for interpretation.

I've told you this multiple times in other stories... it doesn't matter what the agenda is. when your story doesn't hold up, it doesn't hold up. You're asking us to wait for the good parts and that is simply bad. And don't tell me you aren't because you are using what you are planning as an excuse to why your characters are bad.

I want you to take a good long look at my post and ask yourself where in all those hundreds of words did I ever, even remotely imply, that everything that you have mentioned being a flaw in my writing is indeed not a flaw at all because of my intentions. And I'll give you a hint.

"It may not be your intention to destroy. It may be your intention to be constructive. But it is also my intention that you shouldn't hate my characters. It doesn't matter what your intentions are if you're not doing it right."

"It doesn't matter what your intentions are if you're not doing it right."

"It doesn't matter"

If you still need help answering that question, please tell me. Because I will direct you to this statement

Let's distinguish between what is being shown by the chapters and what is the agenda.

As the reader you're never meant to be told the agenda. You're meant to be told the story. So as the reader the agenda does not exist, only what is shown exists. If the agenda is not what is shown there is a problem. That's a big problem. A problem I can't ignore. The statement in orange and the statement in green need to match word for word or there is a big problem. When I made that statement I made it very clear to anyone with a stable psyche that I know what is happening, but I also know what should be happening and I know that it is not happening. Still with me?

Probably not.

The problem you have is, you don't know what should be happening. You never have known. Let's be honest, did you even guess that I would write that as my agenda when you first read the story? You couldn't have, so how could you expect to be able to tell me exactly how to make that happen?

You would rather argue than fix tour story. I told you what the problem is. I'm not going to tell you how to fix it. Because I absolutely want you to try your hardest. Or finish the story without any reviews.

I don't think I've ever argued that the story shouldn't be fixed. I never once in any way implied that. I did indeed argue that I'm not suffering from any mental health issues. But that has nothing to do with the story and the only reason it was brought up is because you have a bad habit of scrutinizing things that are not up for scrutiny. You're not going to tell me how to fix it because you can't tell me. You have no idea. You know what's wrong with it. You very clearly do know what's wrong with it, but how to fix it? You don't have a clue.

I think this stems from a very controversial thing that I said and that was:

I think the story would be unreadable if not for Amyrie.

Other people may have much higher standards for reading a story than me. I guess I just didn't make it clear whether or not I thought this and everything else you brought up was a bad thing. It's a bad thing. What this is saying is I don't like Jeremy either. He's not working, and I find myself more interested in Amyrie than anyone else. It's not good, it's a bad thing. I don't think I've ever denied flaws in my writing since FNO. You can go hang out with Jeremy in imagination land if you would like to believe that's what I'm doing, but I'm interested in constructing something, and it doesn't help me if you seek out to destroy it.

I have no intention of making you wait for the good parts. I never once suggested that. I want every part to be good.

Lumaria

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Reviewer
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2017, 07:05:01 am »
Whoa whoa, back up. Back up very far. I'm not using anything as an excuse. How can you possibly interpret my words this backwards. And you have the gall, no, the audacity to question my mental health. I need a moment to take in the fact that you're actually doing this.

So clearly I need to break apart my own statements because you seem to have no skill for interpretation.

I've told you this multiple times in other stories... it doesn't matter what the agenda is. when your story doesn't hold up, it doesn't hold up. You're asking us to wait for the good parts and that is simply bad. And don't tell me you aren't because you are using what you are planning as an excuse to why your characters are bad.

I want you to take a good long look at my post and ask yourself where in all those hundreds of words did I ever, even remotely imply, that everything that you have mentioned being a flaw in my writing is indeed not a flaw at all because of my intentions. And I'll give you a hint.

"It may not be your intention to destroy. It may be your intention to be constructive. But it is also my intention that you shouldn't hate my characters. It doesn't matter what your intentions are if you're not doing it right."

"It doesn't matter what your intentions are if you're not doing it right."

"It doesn't matter"

If you still need help answering that question, please tell me. Because I will direct you to this statement

Let's distinguish between what is being shown by the chapters and what is the agenda.

As the reader you're never meant to be told the agenda. You're meant to be told the story. So as the reader the agenda does not exist, only what is shown exists. If the agenda is not what is shown there is a problem. That's a big problem. A problem I can't ignore. The statement in orange and the statement in green need to match word for word or there is a big problem. When I made that statement I made it very clear to anyone with a stable psyche that I know what is happening, but I also know what should be happening and I know that it is not happening. Still with me?

Probably not.

If the story spent hold up and you have to explain the agenda then you're doing something wrong. You don't need to distinguish to anyone the difference between what's shown and the agenda. So why do you feel the need to unless you are actually trying to make an argument based on it. I'm here to tell you it doesn't matter so much that I hope you never bring it up again.

If it doesn't matter then instead of explaining what your agenda was you would've actually implemented it properly by now (in chapter 1). You say you know it doesn't matter but look what you're actually doing? Explaining the difference as if it did matter.

Quote
The problem you have is, you don't know what should be happening. You never have known. Let's be honest, did you even guess that I would write that as my agenda when you first read the story? You couldn't have, so how could you expect to be able to tell me exactly how to make that happen?

You would rather argue than fix tour story. I told you what the problem is. I'm not going to tell you how to fix it. Because I absolutely want you to try your hardest. Or finish the story without any reviews.

I don't think I've ever argued that the story shouldn't be fixed. I never once in any way implied that. I did indeed argue that I'm not suffering from any mental health issues. But that has nothing to do with the story and the only reason it was brought up is because you have a bad habit of scrutinizing things that are not up for scrutiny. You're not going to tell me how to fix it because you can't tell me. You have no idea. You know what's wrong with it. You very clearly do know what's wrong with it, but how to fix it? You don't have a clue.

This is your open invitation for me to write it for you and prove to you that i know enougb by challenging me to say I don't know what the agenda is. So don't ever say something like this again.

We have a socially inept person who has a construct that he uses to give himself moral support. There is hundreds of ways I could write it and make it an actually readable character. I've definitely told you before but for the dozens of times:

I don't tell you how to fix it because there are multiple ways to fix the problem. There's not one solution. So long as you understand the problem, you can fix it in a way where YOU feel comfortable. That's what you don't understand. So long as you attempt to fix the problem DIRECTLY rather than going around the problem. Amyrie isn't the solution to fix Jeremy.

Problem A: Jeremy is a sociopath and is irredeemable.. sociopath is an extremely negative trait not suited for a main protagonist especially if the goal is to empathize with him in some way. There's a reason why serial killers are usually sociopaths. And Jeremy is definitely serial killer potential based on the chapters you provided.

Solution A: Let's not make him a sociopath. If you understand what makes a sociopath then this is a no-brainer.

How to implement this solution:
You could make him less creepy and extreme to such simple situations. Give us more positive traits early or actually explain to some degree why he's like that. But at the same time we see such extreme situations without getting a full break down. Basically put all his negative traits on a microscope really.

I want you to put your own story under a microscope not me do it for you.
Quote
I think this stems from a very controversial thing that I said and that was:

I think the story would be unreadable if not for Amyrie.

Other people may have much higher standards for reading a story than me. I guess I just didn't make it clear whether or not I thought this and everything else you brought up was a bad thing. It's a bad thing. What this is saying is I don't like Jeremy either. He's not working, and I find myself more interested in Amyrie than anyone else. It's not good, it's a bad thing. I don't think I've ever denied flaws in my writing since FNO. You can go hang out with Jeremy in imagination land if you would like to believe that's what I'm doing, but I'm interested in constructing something, and it doesn't help me if you seek out to destroy it.

I have no intention of making you wait for the good parts. I never once suggested that. I want every part to be good.
And ive told you Amyrie doesn't work...shes a byproduct of the worst character in your story and she's not even a real character. Whatever she does is an act of what Jeremy wants. She is Jeremys crutch from reality. And not written in a compelling way. As i expect out of an imaginary friend.

On a scale of 1 to 10 for how serious the issue is. Jeremy is an 11. He makes me question the author. These specific scenes are coming from somewhere. These situations this character is in so out there and yet feel like this story is actually about a Serial Killer in the making. Read your story with that perspective and see how accurate this statement is.

THE GOLDEN GUIDE FOR TARA TO WRITE SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER  AND ACTUALLY MOVE FORWARD:
(Please I beg of you to write this down and print it out on paper and every time you write you look at it before asking for someone to look into your work so that we never have to repeat ourselves to the degree that we do).

#1) Make compelling characters actually compelling in the very  first chapter. They don't have to be loved but there has to be enough to follow a certain character. Also make them relatable in some way. Don't do any extreme life choices on this characters unless you fully intend to show the reader their thought process in that moment as to why they decided to make those choices. Whatever character values be sure to make clear on the first chapter even if it will change in later stories.

Look up the term Mary sue and Anti-Sues and be sure to remind yourself every single time you wrote what those are. And after that ask yourself is my character a Mary sue or Anti-Sue? If it's one those then you immediately failed.

Ask yourself: is this character too extreme? If so why? Is he appealing in anyway based on what I wrote? If not why?

#2) Treat your supporting characters with as much care as your main character. Don't just pump them out of a factory and give them a name. Give them actual personalities such as likes and dislikes that you can see in the story. Most importantly don't make your characters as plot devices only designed to habe one purpose. It needs to feel like due to the personality of the character lead to the events in the story.

Remember that readers don't ignore characters, they analyze them and try to see all the traits mentioned above even if it is hinted. If you can't explain why a character decided to do something purely based on their personality or traits then this character is a plot device.

I'd rather you give as much character personality in the first chapter than none at all. Reviewing becomes more easier and we can tell you what to cut or unnecessary rather than telling you you don't have enough.

#3) Show don't tell. You think I had to tell you this only once but this is why the guide is here. You have to do as much as possible to show events and development and not have characters just tell the reader with no actual visual or actual event that explains it. Showing is effective because we get to see how much it matters. If you tell us rather than show it means you didn't care much at all for the reader to understand it.

#4) Add as much visual description as possible in your scripts. Don't care that you don't like that. I'm tired of having such a strong disconnect from your story because you are uncomfortable sharing it properly. Poor writing leads to poor pacing which means I will point it out. I don't care if you feel you need to tell me by panel. I prefer that you don't but it would be better for everyone that you actually describe it in some way. Because believe it or not, if you're going to hire an artist you're better off actually drawing the basic layout of the pages anyways.

#5)  Make sure that you write with your goals second priority, making a good story first priority. Sounds crazy? Not for you. You have comes up with some of the most backward characters and story elements that I had ever seen. You are your worst enemy. The general concepts aren't bad but end up being destroyed by bad personal motivation. This is especially true for your fantasy based characters.

If your goals are getting in the way of making a good story then it needs to be scrapped on the spot or think of a new goal. Keep in mind that I didn't say your personal goals should be last, I said they should be second.

#6) If you get criticism and you intend to tell readers your agenda for your story. Dont. Unless we ask what your agenda is, take the criticism and if its related to what you have planned, implement the agenda early if possible or hint the agenda more frequently in the story. If you don't know how, then "ASK" and admit you don't know how. People can't write your story for you. We don't know what you are intending and we shouldn't if you are a seasoned writer. But if you are open to drastic change then say so. Otherwise we give you ideas you turn them down because of agenda and it's a vicious cycle.


#7) Reviews are great...but do your own research. You cannot rely on reviews alone. The process is much slower. Study how to make a good character based on countless of resources on the internet. Its usually good advice when it comes to characters.  Study how to make good dialogue. Even if you think you are good at it study it.in fact you should study the very aspects you think you are good at.



Last advise I will give for a long time. Just use this and you should have no problems making a decent story. I will come back when it's finished and you have at least attempted to implement ALL of these tips. Or if you prefer lose interest on your own.

guest4

  • Guest
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2017, 09:55:19 am »
THE GOLDEN GUIDE FOR TARA TO WRITE SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER  AND ACTUALLY MOVE FORWARD:
(Please I beg of you to write this down and print it out on paper and every time you write you look at it before asking for someone to look into your work so that we never have to repeat ourselves to the degree that we do).

#1) Make compelling characters actually compelling in the very  first chapter. They don't have to be loved but there has to be enough to follow a certain character. Also make them relatable in some way. Don't do any extreme life choices on this characters unless you fully intend to show the reader their thought process in that moment as to why they decided to make those choices. Whatever character values be sure to make clear on the first chapter even if it will change in later stories.

Look up the term Mary sue and Anti-Sues and be sure to remind yourself every single time you wrote what those are. And after that ask yourself is my character a Mary sue or Anti-Sue? If it's one those then you immediately failed.

Ask yourself: is this character too extreme? If so why? Is he appealing in anyway based on what I wrote? If not why?

#2) Treat your supporting characters with as much care as your main character. Don't just pump them out of a factory and give them a name. Give them actual personalities such as likes and dislikes that you can see in the story. Most importantly don't make your characters as plot devices only designed to habe one purpose. It needs to feel like due to the personality of the character lead to the events in the story.

Remember that readers don't ignore characters, they analyze them and try to see all the traits mentioned above even if it is hinted. If you can't explain why a character decided to do something purely based on their personality or traits then this character is a plot device.

I'd rather you give as much character personality in the first chapter than none at all. Reviewing becomes more easier and we can tell you what to cut or unnecessary rather than telling you you don't have enough.

#3) Show don't tell. You think I had to tell you this only once but this is why the guide is here. You have to do as much as possible to show events and development and not have characters just tell the reader with no actual visual or actual event that explains it. Showing is effective because we get to see how much it matters. If you tell us rather than show it means you didn't care much at all for the reader to understand it.

#4) Add as much visual description as possible in your scripts. Don't care that you don't like that. I'm tired of having such a strong disconnect from your story because you are uncomfortable sharing it properly. Poor writing leads to poor pacing which means I will point it out. I don't care if you feel you need to tell me by panel. I prefer that you don't but it would be better for everyone that you actually describe it in some way. Because believe it or not, if you're going to hire an artist you're better off actually drawing the basic layout of the pages anyways.

#5)  Make sure that you write with your goals second priority, making a good story first priority. Sounds crazy? Not for you. You have comes up with some of the most backward characters and story elements that I had ever seen. You are your worst enemy. The general concepts aren't bad but end up being destroyed by bad personal motivation. This is especially true for your fantasy based characters.

If your goals are getting in the way of making a good story then it needs to be scrapped on the spot or think of a new goal. Keep in mind that I didn't say your personal goals should be last, I said they should be second.

#6) If you get criticism and you intend to tell readers your agenda for your story. Dont. Unless we ask what your agenda is, take the criticism and if its related to what you have planned, implement the agenda early if possible or hint the agenda more frequently in the story. If you don't know how, then "ASK" and admit you don't know how. People can't write your story for you. We don't know what you are intending and we shouldn't if you are a seasoned writer. But if you are open to drastic change then say so. Otherwise we give you ideas you turn them down because of agenda and it's a vicious cycle.


#7) Reviews are great...but do your own research. You cannot rely on reviews alone. The process is much slower. Study how to make a good character based on countless of resources on the internet. Its usually good advice when it comes to characters.  Study how to make good dialogue. Even if you think you are good at it study it.in fact you should study the very aspects you think you are good at.
Give that to me instead and I'll give you a sweet youtube video link that I just found . Deal ?

Lumaria

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Reviewer
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2017, 10:14:59 am »
Sure if you believe you can make use of it. 

guest4

  • Guest
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2017, 10:28:40 am »
Oh totez !








You know that I'm poking fun at a predictable result by doing so , right ?

Tara

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • Gawvi get em
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 03:59:12 am »
 Before I do post the revisions to chapter 1, I want to say, DeAngelus, my goodness, you seriously blew that comment out of proportion. I'm upset with myself for not addressing this. So much pride from you came out, I thought I was watching full metal alchemist. You would have thought I went to india and started flipping burgers.

You want the whole truth. The whole truth. The only thing I wanted to comment on was the fact that you put a space in between the end of a sentence and its punctuation. But I thought it would be kind of rude to only offer that in terms of constructive criticism. You posted the story, clearly you want opinions, so I offered you one. But although that was the bulk of my post, it was just me trying to be constructive by offering my own experiences in a way that may be relevant to you.

I'm sorry that you took it that way. I'm sorry that you couldn't handle the misunderstanding like an adult, but let's be honest, even a kindergartner knows not to put a space between the end of a sentence and its punctuation, so how much could I expect from you, right.

I know you say and do a lot of things to upset me and I'm very slow to anger, but the way you space out your punctuation makes me want to commit sepukku with a butter knife. If the goal is to upset me, then you're doing a great job. If the goal is to write in english. . . yikes.

It's like how girls in high school would always write their lowercase "R"s with a capital "R" symbol and just make it shorter. I lose the ability to even. You talk about me making a mockery of your career, you're making a mockery of the english language. You laugh at webster and then your sentence structure looks like this. It's not a good look for you.

If you're publishing manga with glaring grammatical errors all I can say is no wonder you're doing it part time, don't quit your day job. I'm sorry, that just really bothers me.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 04:03:37 am by Tara »
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Orchid

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
Re: You're Not Real
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2017, 10:10:35 pm »
Let's remember everyone that all reviews are for everyone's best interest and we should treat them as such even if you don't agree. Let's all calm down.


I'm sorry again for being gone. I was alerted early on but I had something I couldn't keep away so sorry about that. This should only be about talking about this article and this story. I'm sure other topics will seem relevant but just try to keep it about this story as much as possible.

Again I'm sorry for being gone. I would've deescalated this as soon as possible but I wasn't able to.

 

+-Recent Topics

udaipur escort by divyarai
November 20, 2020, 02:18:51 am

Steamy Jaipur Escort Service for Wonderful Pleasure by divyarai
November 20, 2020, 02:17:54 am

Jaipur Escort Service for Wonderful Pleasure by ndatwnuz
November 16, 2020, 04:07:39 am

Pożyczki Katowice od 264zł by vicky007
October 30, 2020, 06:26:56 am

Erotic Escorts and Get in touch with Lady in Udaipur by vicky007
October 27, 2020, 04:36:22 am

Blade Regalia by Tara
May 17, 2020, 02:29:13 am

Why I've been gone by Tara
May 17, 2020, 01:27:35 am

Furniture Rotan Sintetis by abcdefghijklmn
September 12, 2019, 09:32:44 pm

Broken by Orchid
January 01, 2019, 08:15:04 pm

When does a fanfic surpass the story it's based off? by Tara
December 28, 2018, 11:36:38 pm