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Author Topic: Do forums own your content?  (Read 585 times)

Lumaria

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Do forums own your content?
« on: August 05, 2016, 02:55:08 am »
This is something that really bothered me. I can't fathom the idea of a forum trying to call your posts their property.

I was in Onemangaforums.com (as Lorenx1) and it really struck me how extreme their views were on content.

At first they made it out to be an easy way to moderate so people don't abuse it. But one particular Admin was preaching the idea that the moment I post my content, it no longer belongs to me, it belongs to the community.

Now I understand that Onemangaforum is not really about original content sharing and more about general discussions on latest anime and manga, but even then people should have the right to delete their threads.

I do believe that people do indeed own their threads. As immature people can be (which I've seen plenty) it has been expressed as their right to do it no matter what the reason.

The forum wants to make it look like if a few posts that get deleted along the way, then that is tyrannical. It may seem that way at first glance, but YouTube has been able to delete their own videos with comments. LiveJournal also allows one to blog and delete certain updates with comments aswell.

I've seen plenty of forums have it, and I've never seen. Right be abused.  What do you all think? I especially would like to know what you think about this. Especially in a forum designed to share your original content.

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HematoLogMeIn

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2016, 03:07:02 am »
Well, it technically depends on what's in the terms and conditions. Generally speaking though, that's like saying Youtube owns any video posted rather than the channel host. Granted, that's not an excellent example, but it still shows the point very well. Even if Youtube does profiteer off the channel hosts, the channel hosts still ultimately "own" their content as far as copyright is concerned, which is why certain accounts seem to attack one another with copyright claims and strikes.

Ultimately, copyright exists so that a person's work remains that of the person and any affiliated parties, and while you can get it nice and legalized, the copyright still technically exists without a fancy piece of paper. Again, though, about affiliated parties, reading the fine print is super important in situations like this.

Crackhead Johny

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2016, 11:34:15 am »
There are some sites where the terms state that the site owns everything posted and can sell it however they like. Avoid these sites like the plague.

Now when it comes down to deleting your own threads. This is a tool for trolls. Imagine a few years of this thread growing http://mangamavericks.createaforum.com/tips-and-tutorials/the-big-fat-thread-of-assorted-helpful-links/ then DeAngelus has a bad day and rage quits deleting every thread they created. That would be a monster hit to the forum. That sort of a feature is not worth the risk.

The person talking about editing their posts in locked threads. That is also a tool for trolls and makes forums go toxic really fast.

As someone who has been ripped off as a game dev (they took my stuff to market*), I have to say that if I shared my stuff on line rather that with some new devs, while drinking at a convention, I would have been better off.
If they take your stuff and you can cite the thread then you have proof. If you delete your thread and they stripped the stories/images out as they were posted, then ripped you off, by deleting your thread you lose the proof and they still have your content saved on their own machine.

*the happy ending is that while they took races and other stuff from me, they missed the main point of my discussion as to why SciFi RPGs fail and so their game tanked.

Lumaria

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2016, 07:34:27 pm »
Unfortunately it has moved more closer to principle. Some mods and some members are clearly stating that they own my content the moment I post it. And that's something I strongly disagree with.


HematoLogMeIn

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2016, 08:37:18 pm »
On one hand I can see how these things would be tools for trolls, especially editing posts in a locked thread, however, deletion of one's own thread is something I would consider less so. If someone is a troll, I doubt that they'd post anything important like our Assorted Helpful Links thread in the first place. Someone would have to be very motivated to contribute a useful thread for an extended time and delete it out of spite, and that's not exactly trolling. It's still an issue, if it were to come up, but I can't see that being a thing that happens very often.

Lumaria

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2016, 09:16:30 pm »
I agree wholeheartedly with your statement.

I especially agree that it is not inherently wrong with someone deleting their own threads if they decide to quit. If someone was burned by this forum and they decide to remove everything they contributed to the forum? Is that inherently wrong?

Should the forum dictate the content they share? I think the problem is only if they try to delete other people's work like stories.

Crackhead Johny

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2016, 12:32:10 am »
On one hand I can see how these things would be tools for trolls, especially editing posts in a locked thread, however, deletion of one's own thread is something I would consider less so. If someone is a troll, I doubt that they'd post anything important like our Assorted Helpful Links thread in the first place. Someone would have to be very motivated to contribute a useful thread for an extended time and delete it out of spite, and that's not exactly trolling. It's still an issue, if it were to come up, but I can't see that being a thing that happens very often.
With trolling I was talking general purpose. There are guides online on how to post and delete for hilarious trolling.

When it comes to monster destruction by a trusted member, all it take is a rage quit during a bad day.

This just comes down to risk management.

Lumaria

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2016, 12:38:00 am »
This is why training the community is important. If someone rage quits after years of work, then something so untolerable was happening and the admin or mod refused to work with the community and the member. the community should be held accountable for what it lead to aswell when their original content is lost.

But the likelihood of one person having just one bad day after  years of work is not likely to purge all threads started by them. We all had our bad days, so do i.  I don't doubt many other members had bad days probably here in MangaMavericks. 

Crackhead Johny

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2016, 12:46:26 am »
I have had many friends rage quit .. life.
So the idea of rage quitting an online forum, is inconsequential compared to that.

I know a few high end forums that have daily rage quits from 10-20 year vets. Dying forums.
Politics is what is killing those forums. but anything can lead to it.
This is why I say it is risk mgmt.

When I said "**** it" to Manga Raiders after a 13 yo was allowed to retcon (the biggest crime against writing) a communal piece, I didn't delete all my stuff. I left it so some could learn from it (they didn't). I'm not like most people though.

Knowledge is critical. maintaining a record of what happened is part of that. Letting people delete parts of that record is unforgivable.

Lumaria

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2016, 12:55:00 am »
I have had many friends rage quit .. life.
So the idea of rage quitting an online forum, is inconsequential compared to that.
I literally went threw this quite recently as you know.
Quote
I know a few high end forums that have daily rage quits from 10-20 year vets. Dying forums.
Politics is what is killing those forums. but anything can lead to it.
This is why I say it is risk mgmt.

But if managing it becomes successful?
Quote
When I said "**** it" to Manga Raiders after a 13 yo was allowed to retcon (the biggest crime against writing) a communal piece, I didn't delete all my stuff. I left it so some could learn from it (they didn't). I'm not like most people though.
I think I know who you are talking about. But I deleted my stories. I think I left my advice, but these stories are better off elsewhere.
Quote
Knowledge is critical. maintaining a record of what happened is part of that. Letting people delete parts of that record is unforgivable.
In terms of a forum, unfortunately the info can be expendable. Not a lot of people look for records unless something crazy bad went down. And usually by then if people are aware they screenshot it.

But at that point it's not the forum controlling what is recorded. Someone just taking advantage of a feature outside the forum is. Again, YouTube, Facebook, Deviant Art allow it.

Like I said, someone did something to deserve the rage quit and content lost. At that point, we have to be held accountable. It's not pretty, but it's not wrong either.

HematoLogMeIn

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2016, 01:42:54 am »
This is kinda going in the direction of an individual's right to their own work versus some kind of community rights, which, as I said, should be clearly stated in the TOS.

If someone rage quits, that's their decision. If they no longer feel that their content is safe in the hands of that community, that's also their decision. Of course, we can probably limit what you're talking about by managing between being able to delete individual posts or entire threads. There's always also this lovely thing called compromise, such as if someone is leaving a forum that won't allow them to delete their story or art threads, at least they should be able to ask (or tell) a mod to remove it for them.

The main point here, I think, is:
It's not about "keeping a record". It's about ownage and usage rights.

Afterthought: I admit that I don't know much about site handling, but don't most mods keep some kind of a backup system for important threads or keep some kind of loose record of site activity anyway?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 01:49:38 am by HematoLogMeIn »

Lumaria

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2016, 01:47:02 am »
I still wholeheartedly agree. I wasn't too worried about asking for my threads to be removed. But suddenly they were spreading the idea that my content is now owned partially if not entirely to the community.

guest4

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2016, 07:17:56 am »
Imagine a few years of this thread growing http://mangamavericks.createaforum.com/tips-and-tutorials/the-big-fat-thread-of-assorted-helpful-links/ then DeAngelus has a bad day and rage quits deleting every thread they created. That would be a monster hit to the forum. That sort of a feature is not worth the risk.
Me mad ; Me quit ! *Begins deleting* (Sorry for the lack of helpful links . Been busy ...)

Okay , I was a bit guilty on the part of getting enraged and deleting (or more like edit-erase) threads/posts made by me on one forum . When you're Bart-mad , it's all out of the window ; been there , done that and Yoga's my best buddy now as I've now found out , raging on benefits me none .

I agree with what's being stated by Crackhead Johnny & HematoLogMeIn in that such feature , though it benefits you , the e-gremlins consisting of trolls , butthurts & people with humongous pride & ego would to , even more than you do . Deviantart to me is more than enough of an example on the abuse of such privileges , more than enough that the moment someone request for it to be applied , I'd give an unconditional 'No' .

As for content rights , this is why we're always be encouraged to read their site rules and terms/conditions before ever posting sensitive , personal contents . If it wasn't to your liking , leave it like Crackhead Johnny had said :
Quote
There are some sites where the terms state that the site owns everything posted and can sell it however they like. Avoid these sites like the plague.
I don't even bother with Onemanga anymore - it's already a dead-horse of a site to me . I did gave them a suggestion to turn it into a fan-made original manga hosting site like it was used to , only to turn quiet for a long time , most probably indefinitely  . Another project that seems to spawn from that suggestion however seems to be raving on and here's the hint , Youtube channel ... *facepalm*

Oh , this is where I drop my suggestion . Notice that all of the other suggestions in there only caters to whatever remnants of the community still lingering there , but not for the site itself to grow/reincarnate ? Feels very Fallout-ish already ...

Orchid

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2016, 12:12:32 pm »
I've been reading a lot about this. At least here, everyone owns their own art and scripts.

I see both points too. We dont want people to rage quit and hurt the forum.

I'll be reading over terms and agreement make sure it doesn't have something really crazy. I think the difference is also what kind of forum we are. Since we are closer to DA, then we should give them the ability to take their work down.


I was thinking about things like contest? I would imagine that it's still their own content but since they submit it for an event, they cant just take it down?

Because I remember there was talk about making art contests.

guest4

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Re: Do forums own your content?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2016, 02:48:52 pm »
Too soon to hold a contest of even a tiny scale for this site ...

 

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