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Author Topic: Five Body Blade  (Read 497 times)

Tara

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Five Body Blade
« on: February 22, 2016, 07:40:06 pm »
You're probably all interested in seeing a creation of mine that I take seriously. The cannibal is just a manga adaptation of a narrative adaptation of a poem I wrote. And FNO is definitely nothing serious.

Five Body Blade, perhaps more well known as Dark Lineage, is based on early 17th century Japan when Nagasaki officials began executing citizens that had converted to Christianity after Japan declared the religion illegal. These christians were discovered through a law that required every citizen to have a document saying they treaded on the Fumi-e, that is, a mandatory practice of stepping on an image of Christ or the virgin Mary.

In the world of Five Body Blade people gain supernatural power from their weapons. Therefore, stronger weapons, means more power. The grade of a sword for instance, one to five bodies, makes a great difference, and because five body blades are scarce but in high demand, craftsmen employ questionable methods to ensure their quality. The one to five body classification is obtained by testing the blade on criminals. In this case, the people convicted of practicing a religion called Trinitee, or Trinitians, in which its followers pronounce their faith in Lord Trinity which had been deemed illegal by the emperor. A five body blade would be able to cut through 5 bodies in one stroke. Some blades stop at the fourth body or earlier and these would be considered less powerful.

Five Body Blade follows a once Trinitian girl who seeks out bloody revenge against five people after coincidentally finding a powerful sword that had yet to be tested. When her family was tried she stepped on the fumie, being child who knew no better, and her family was executed after they refused. She doesn't know why they were killed, she only remembers that the katana used to kill them was classified as a five body blade.

Spoiler: sample storyboard (hover to show)

Although quite uncharacteristic of me, I actually don't have a plan for this story.

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変態

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 09:15:46 pm »
Since the setting is in Japan with real events mixed in it, it's better to have a knowledge about Japan's history; specifically that era and culture. If you'll ever make this into an on-going story/manga, better research on the history.

For the sample page part, the sword could be resting somewhere deep and obscure  other than on the open lawn like for example an old and abandoned shrine or inside a collapsed cave-temple.

Tara

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2016, 04:01:55 pm »
I agree wholeheartedly, there's much research to be done.

That's an ingenious idea, placing the sword at a shrine would help answer a lot of questions.. 

Crackhead Johny

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 02:05:59 pm »
For the sample page part, the sword could be resting somewhere deep and obscure  other than on the open lawn like for example an old and abandoned shrine or inside a collapsed cave-temple.
Or impaled in a stone where only the chosen one could pull it out!

As 変態 said, you will need to know the history. While blades were tested on executed criminals (they were generally dead for testing as it made it easier, since live people do not like to be tested on) the blade's owner/future owner would not do the testing as it was not honorable. Once the owner has the blade they are not bringing it back.
Now when you get to the dishonorable practice of a blade's owner testing their blade on people, you meet tsujigiri or cross roads murder.

If you get the historical accuracy wrong you would be in big trouble with an American Otaku as well as any Japanese who reads it.

So let me make sure I'm understanding this.
What we have is an orphan in a time where the child would have been purged, along with their family, for the crimes of a family member. This orphan was lucky not to get purged. Since no one would take a complete leper like that kid in, it is even more lucky this orphan somehow didn't starve.
This orphan's parents were insanely lucky to have been executed by a blade that happened to cut through them and 3 other people who were all nice enough to hold real still, so as to help give the best test result, before the blade was given to its purchaser or as a gift to gain favor.
Even more lucky if someone actually got the blade maker to permanently shame themselves by doing the execution.
Or did someone bring in a crazy rare blade, one suitable for a high level noble, just to execute some incredibly low level criminal scum, and thus shame the blade and its owner? What would have happened if any of the 5 struggled and the blade was seen to not cut through 5, like it was supposed to?? How embarrassing.
Then this orphan of the incredibly lucky family, happens to find an incredibly valuable carbon steel blade stuck in the lawn, rusting. We know the blade maker probably knew it was 4 body if not 5, since he knows his job. That is real luck.
Seriously, in a world where so much love, ritual, and time was spent caring for these venerated blades, here is one disgracefully stuck in the lawn.  It is like finding a .50 Barret out on the lawn.. No, thinking of the value of the blade it is more like finding a Veyron with it's keys in it, abandoned in your driveway.. No, more like finding a nuclear weapon abandoned in the local dog park.
She will then use her complete lack of training combined with this awesome abandoned blade to wreck vengeance upon the low level executioner who's job it was to test the blade (unless they got the blade maker to do it). Maybe one of the blade maker's apprentices tested the blade? Maybe the other 3 are the janitors who had to feed her family's bodies to the dogs?. 
The case seems cut and dried, so probably not the low level magistrate who sentenced them. Maybe the emperor who knew nothing about the family's execution but did write the law on the advice of his Shinto advisers, is the target? Maybe the whole chain of command down to the lowly executioner? No, that would be way more than 5.
Lucky that the five body blade that killed her parents is now with some rich noble somewhere else or she might have to fight an equal blade with her found blade.

Maybe I'm wrong in guessing the revenge was about her parents death and it was actually about something else?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 02:14:47 pm by Crackhead Johny »

Tara

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 06:11:06 pm »
I have thought about everything you've brought up Johny. But as I said, I don't have a plan, I can provide a solution but I really don't know the answer any better than you do just yet.

I'm sure only the father would be summoned to step on the fumi-e and his household would be judged accordingly afterwards. Patriarchy and all that. With the advent of supernatural power, I decided it was best for five body blade not to take place in japan. I used the terms "based on" instead of "occurs in" and made a parallel of Christianity for the purpose of illustrating that the setting is similar to Japan, but not Japan. Also because I envision the story will make Christianity seem like the correct religion, or the wrong religion, due to how their supernatural power connects to their religious beliefs. I believe that would be much too offensive.

Historical accuracy is a plus, but not a priority in this case I wouldn't think.

Finding the sword is obviously not a coincidence (I was being ironic when I said that) though it may look that way, and it's clear there is some sentient malicious evil within the sword as. You find that the girl was somewhat chosen. I like the idea of the shrine because any child would be inclined to explore and if the shrine did suddenly appear it seems reasonable that anyone who takes the sword was making a mistake. It takes away from the idea of her being chosen.

In this world where there's such a power struggle between less efficient and more efficient weapons, I would theorize testing would be very important. I envisioned the executioner would do the killing, and that the smiths were under a lot of pressure by the ruling class to produce five body blades. It's not that they could or couldn't struggle, it's just that they don't struggle. Or I could give the executioner some ability to immobilize the criminals.

Just to be clear Five Body Blade is only inspired by the events that took place in 17th century Nagasaki, Japan. I still have the liberty to do whatever I want.

The girl, her name is Esashi -until I find a better one- is sent into slavery at an okiya (geisha house) mainly for upkeep, not to become a geisha. She would come across the sword upon her daily routine, only the sword wouldn't have been there before. It would have been like the sword just appeared.

I planned that the sword would teach her to fight himself. As with anyone, wielding the sword gives her strength, speed and agility, she just has to learn how to use it.

変態

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 09:46:27 pm »
Aside from the sword testing which is already a huge topic, there are still others to note such as their government, tradition, practice/behavior, society etc. It does need a lot of research so to avoid inaccuracy.

The girl, her name is Esashi -until I find a better one-
If I'm not mistaken, most female names within those era starts with a letter "O" like Ohatsu, Oimine, Okuni, Onao, Otomaru, Otoyu etc. They also do not carry their family's surname. But I'm pretty much sure they have other basic names too.

Some historical manga that you could reference with:
Shigurui (nudity, violence/gore warning)
Vagabond (seinen)

Semi Off-topic: I read someone's story summary with Japanese as characters and setting but it flows completely on western practice. It was really weird to read and I feel like the author just wanted a Japanese characters and setting just because.  It was giving off a weeabooish ambience and I know you don't want your story to be like that.

Lumaria

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 01:58:58 am »
The idea  definitely needs research. 

Looking at the storyboard already set off some alarms. Kids casually looking finding a sword in the middle of the field is raising more questions then it giving us an idea of how the world feels.

Additionally the design of the blade doesn't look well thought out.

This one will need not only extensive research on history but you will also be near fluent in Japanese if you intend to name the blades. Just like in Bleach and in Naruto where they have special names and attacks, you will have to do the same and most likely all Japanese. Not only will the names be Japanese, but they have to be extremely clever. Names have to fit the name when it comes to attack/weapons. Some even have wordplay and double meanings.

I dont think this is one you can casually pick up. But if you have no goal start off with creating a goal for a character.

You're probably all interested in seeing a creation of mine that I take seriously. The cannibal is just a manga adaptation of a narrative adaptation of a poem I wrote. And FNO is definitely nothing serious.
This has got to be the most disappointing and predictable statement yet. I bet, if you took all your stories seriously, you could flesh them out better.

Also if you want to learn how to write better, don't defend what you don't take seriously. Work on it and try to understand the flaws. Even if you don't agree, see why the person brings it up.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 02:20:13 am by Lumaria »

Crackhead Johny

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 10:27:22 am »
It takes away from the idea of her being chosen.
Is being chosen important to you? If so, why?
With chosen you get to know that no matter what happens, you can just keep yawning because the MC will be fine, because they are chosen.

Chinpo was knocked down by the mighty blow, his face bloody, his body broken, his consciousnesses was fading fast, as his eyes closed for what was probably the last time, he felt something stir inside. Before he could tell what it was, he was embraced by the dreamless sleep.
With Chinpo's defeat the battle was lost and the people of the village, doomed.
Suddenly Chinpo's body stood back up, glowing and burning with inner fire as Chinpoko, the 9 nosed aardvark demon, that had been bound inside Chinpo when he was an infant, took control.
Now the fight would really begin.

*BARF*


Quote
In this world where there's such a power struggle between less efficient and more efficient weapons, I would theorize testing would be very important. I envisioned the executioner would do the killing, and that the smiths were under a lot of pressure by the ruling class to produce five body blades.
For this we have to look at craftsmanship and production plus supply/demand.
A master sword maker will tend to make the best blades. When he makes one he will know how good it is. Testing is just the proof/sales pitch.
The master sword makers will be famous and very powerful. In this case "a lot of pressure" would be greed for even more money/land/whatever.
If you want uberweapons, they control the supply.
What are you going to do, take their uberweapons with your puny weapons?


Now, as for finding the blade.
There is a long history of pulling swords out of things after you find them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gram_%28mythology%29, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur, etc.

How about she steals it from someone.
Main characters never steal their super weapon. It would be too unwholesome and roguish.
An even bigger show of the importance of the vengeance, is if she steals the sword from someone who is not on the vengeance list.
She already has bloody vengeance planned, why not tack on some theft? Han Solo her up a bit.
The 5 body blade could be what she has to defeat in the end and the best she can steal is a 4 body blade. Yes, you could have her steal the first 6 body blade that no one knows has been created but again, at this point she is cheating by bringing the gun to a sword fight.

変態

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 08:34:45 pm »
Kids casually looking finding a sword in the middle of the field is raising more questions then it giving us an idea of how the world feels.

Additionally the design of the blade doesn't look well thought out.
I believe the story is still a WIP thus, the plain details.

This one will need not only extensive research on history but you will also be near fluent in Japanese if you intend to name the blades. Just like in Bleach and in Naruto where they have special names and attacks, you will have to do the same and most likely all Japanese. Not only will the names be Japanese, but they have to be extremely clever. Names have to fit the name when it comes to attack/weapons. Some even have wordplay and double meanings.
That would be nice if OP is gunning for shonen/fantasy.
She hasn't mentioned anything about it yet though.

Chinpo
LOOOL!

---

Anyway, I've thought of a workaround to lessen the heavy research part: turn it into modern day + fantasy.

MC's parents got killed by a gang because of debt. MC sneaked into a [Insert Mystery Place Here such as Antique Shop, A Church's Hidden Altar, Catacomb, etc] and found the sword. Training + revenge mode begins. Like what CJ mentioned, there could be other swords that existed too.

Just a suggestion.

Tara

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2016, 11:27:35 pm »
I chose to write this because I found japan's persecution of Christians to be interesting to learn about. And its rarely touched on. There's quite a few genocides of Christians, but this one was done in such a unique way and very near the medieval time period. Which is obviously my favorite time period.

The name Esashi comes from a dead language once spoken in japan. But again this not a historical manga, it's only inspired by those events. I'm interested in a new name because there's nothing special about it's meaning except that it would be different from the conventional names other characters have. Perhaps I could give her a Japanese parallel of a biblical name to represent her family's faith like "Meari" (Mary).

When Naruto was translated to english the names of many attacks were translated as well. For instance: Pain's "Almighty Push." To an American audience what does it profit them to call Itachi's attack "Yasaka Magatama." The Magatama isn't a part of our culture and they wouldn't know what "Yasaka" means, and there's no way to relate it to what the attack does unless you already have an idea what the words mean. All the meaning in the name to them comes from the visuals of the attack. "Almighty Push" tells us a lot. Shira Tensei, or however it's spelled in romaji, doesn't make it very clear what Pain is doing. I would have thought you'd advocate for English names of attacks, Lumaria. I think there's almost no reason for me to actually have anything in Japanese. Except, perhaps, the characters' names.

Naruto, for instance, mentions "shinobi" but it's not historically accurate at all. Orange clothing is given to prisoners to make them as visible as possible even at night, and a ninja wears black because they want to be as invisible as possible especially at night. Naruto calls himself a ninja, but he loves to wear orange clothing. There is value in understanding Japan for this story because the more I take from Japan, the less I have to create for this story.

It's not necessarily important to me she that is the chosen one. Incidentally, I do like the idea of her stealing the weapon as well. I remember a documentary I watched about shinobi said they were simple farmers by day and ninja by night. The ninja would be trained in secret starting from when they were very young, and that a young ninja's first mission, or something to that effect, was to steal a samurai's sword, and that would become their weapon. Being employed into a group of shinobi rebels does help solve the problem of where she gets her training and it gives her the right skillset and the means to take down high ranking officials, like the magistrate.

As for other swords I was thinking even bigger than 6 body blades. I would imagine the emperor may have something like a 100 body blade.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 11:31:40 pm by Tara »

Lumaria

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2016, 10:35:17 am »
When Naruto was translated to english the names of many attacks were translated as well. For instance: Pain's "Almighty Push." To an American audience what does it profit them to call Itachi's attack "Yasaka Magatama." The Magatama isn't a part of our culture and they wouldn't know what "Yasaka" means, and there's no way to relate it to what the attack does unless you already have an idea what the words mean. All the meaning in the name to them comes from the visuals of the attack. "Almighty Push" tells us a lot. Shira Tensei, or however it's spelled in romaji, doesn't make it very clear what Pain is doing. I would have thought you'd advocate for English names of attacks, Lumaria. I think there's almost no reason for me to actually have anything in Japanese. Except, perhaps, the characters' names.

You're thinking English. If you have anything set in Japan, then you're going to have to do more work. And this has everything to do with how their language is set up.

Bleach focuses on using specific kanji when naming their zanpakto and almost usually comes in furigana (katakana designed to help young kids to pronounce the kanji) because they are using them in conventionally. Naruto also uses certain names. And even in the English stick with the Japanese naming conventions. Why? Because it doesn't remove the possible translations it has. Some of them are very direct too.

So I don't understand why you would say the only thing that needs to be Japanese is the names. You are basing your story after a historic event (even if it's not literally trying to be exactly that time period).


Quote
Naruto, for instance, mentions "shinobi" but it's not historically accurate at all. Orange clothing is given to prisoners to make them as visible as possible even at night, and a ninja wears black because they want to be as invisible as possible especially at night. Naruto calls himself a ninja, but he loves to wear orange clothing. There is value in understanding Japan for this story because the more I take from Japan, the less I have to create for this story.
yes, wearing orange isn't historically accurate  but it's obvious Naruto wasn't trying to be strictly "Japanese". It was a series that created a world around Japanese culture and a bit of others.

Still just because you provided this example doesn't change what you said before.
Quote
It's not necessarily important to me she that is the chosen one. Incidentally, I do like the idea of her stealing the weapon as well. I remember a documentary I watched about shinobi said they were simple farmers by day and ninja by night. The ninja would be trained in secret starting from when they were very young, and that a young ninja's first mission, or something to that effect, was to steal a samurai's sword, and that would become their weapon. Being employed into a group of shinobi rebels does help solve the problem of where she gets her training and it gives her the right skillset and the means to take down high ranking officials, like the magistrate.

As for other swords I was thinking even bigger than 6 body blades. I would imagine the emperor may have something like a 100 body blade.

The word use of "the chosen one" is so infrared into western culture. It is not a term that many eastern prophecies or stories use.

But if you intend to make it as if she's stealing it rather than being chosen, then look into finding more story aspects that could compliment the idea of stealing it.


For example: in bleach, ichigo in a sense stole shinigami powers in the first arc. But since it's his first time, he didn't know how to use his abilities so much. He didnt even know he had a shikai or bankai.

I normally don't want to feed you direct examples. But...beating around the bush hasn't helped you at all lately.

Also I looked all over the internet. Couldn't find the meaning of 6-body blade or 100-body blade.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 10:44:00 am by Lumaria »

Crackhead Johny

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2016, 12:30:03 pm »
I chose to write this because I found japan's persecution of Christians to be interesting to learn about. And its rarely touched on. There's quite a few genocides of Christians, but this one was done in such a unique way and very near the medieval time period. Which is obviously my favorite time period.

If this is to be a strictly American piece it gives you more flex when it comes to naming things and other errors. If this is ever meant to be viewed in Japan.. Well, lets just say that manga like  "Battle Raper of Nanking!" and "The Man from Unit 731!" are not going to sell well in Japan.

Also with the popularity of Christianity in Japan, consider how unsuccessful the campaign was.
Then there is the fact that Christians love their oppression propaganda, so you will have to really check your sources to see what level of atrocity you are looking at.

Quick research makes this "genocide" laughable. 395 Christians killed in 88 years or ~4.5 Christians per year. More were probably killed each year by horses and far more certainly died of disease.
Also consider the most of the info comes from one piece of very slanted Catholic propaganda (consider how they say "obtained a relic" and not "took home human body parts").
For executions in feudal Japan 4.5 people per year is not even a blimp.
While the church has a fetish for persecution (when they can claim they were persecuted, not when they persecuted others http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#20worst), for the most parts Christians were treated with kid gloves because the black ships and other missionaries brought in weapons and money. Sure when they said "Our god is more powerful than the emperor and you should obey us not him!" things didn't go so good as at that point money can't save you. Basically every so often they got full of their own power and would take things too far and get slapped down for it.
So for the MC's family to have been killed for being Christian, you are really playing the long odds.


Quote
Naruto calls himself a ninja, but he loves to wear orange clothing.
I thought this was because he was mentally handicapped or special needs? Hence the popular name "Narutard".

Quote
It's not necessarily important to me she that is the chosen one. Incidentally, I do like the idea of her stealing the weapon as well. I remember a documentary I watched about shinobi said they were simple farmers by day and ninja by night. The ninja would be trained in secret starting from when they were very young, and that a young ninja's first mission, or something to that effect, was to steal a samurai's sword, and that would become their weapon. Being employed into a group of shinobi rebels does help solve the problem of where she gets her training and it gives her the right skillset and the means to take down high ranking officials, like the magistrate.
Be careful of ninja documentaries. Some of them are done by ninja fetishists  for ninja fetishists.
While they may have started out as poor odd jobs farmers, being sent to do stuff because they were worthless and needed money. It became a business, this is how you hear about things like the Iga, Koga, and Chinpo clans even today.
Sure they still farmed (not the ninjas who did the ninja work, unless they were between jobs) but this was because they owned land and if you owned land and didn't have someone farm it, you were an idiot as land grows food and food was money.

Also think of what being ninja trained brings to the table for the MC. WAY less fighting. If she can poison someone instead of fighting and exposing herself, she will. "Lets see how a bazillion body blade fares against 'stabbed in your sleep'"!

Quote
As for other swords I was thinking even bigger than 6 body blades. I would imagine the emperor may have something like a 100 body blade.
I would be very careful about scaling. For a real story you might be able to go 1 over what was known and have it work.
If the emperor has a 100 body blade you have real problems. You have entered the DBZ zone, this is very bad. "If the main character doesn't block the strike, the universe will be destroyed!!" kind of bad..
Also think of how silly the test for 100 would have to be. Guest executioner Usain Bolt runs past 100 people with the blade held out to the side. Guest executioner Johny Knoxville jumps off a building onto a pile of 100 people with the blade..
Another fact of scaling is that if a 100 body blade exists, a 5 body blade is sad and pointless just because people understand numbers. Production says the person who can make a 100 body blade can make many similar blades.

Then you get to the expected cliche where the MC's teacher or someone else can beat a 100 body blade with just a wooden training sword!

Tara

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2016, 12:11:26 am »
I understand where you're coming Johny and 100 bodies may just be a speculation, or a legend, rather than a tested calculation. But it may also just be too far. Also, I found out around this time Muramasa's katanas were banned, and he alone makes for such an interesting story about crafstmen. Banning these weapons would be a nice way to explain why katanas were never expected to go past five bodies.

The MC becoming a shinobi sounds even better to me now. It's special to her that the sword cuts down five people so she can call it a five body blade. But I imagine she would have to kill other people, who aren't the target, along the way. Instead of having her wack them with the sheath, she'll use the ninjas' tools. It makes her decision to unsheathe the sword at any point seem like a death sentence for the target to the viewer.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 01:06:02 pm by Tara »

Crackhead Johny

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2016, 12:32:55 am »
and he alone makes for such an interesting story about crafstmen.
He alone..
No, Masamune love?

Lumaria

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Re: Five Body Blade
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 03:37:08 am »
We can talk about all these things. But I think it's important to do the research you need.

You can't just half-bake a cake just because you want it to be half cake, half something original. When it comes to Japanese inspired series with the usage of Japanese culture, you have to look into using Japanese.

No naruto ninja comparison is going to change that. Yes you can use something original or redefine something to how you envision, that still doesn't mean you should half-ass the culture.

Secondly, we can't do all the research for you. Do your due diligence. Another thing is to figure out what you want to do with the story and if what you want "fits" with the world you created.

The problem with FNO was that you had an easy to worknwith concept that can grow on it's own. But because you we're so invested in the characters that make no sense and ultimately had nothing to do with the idea of MMO world or being trapped in a world, that story collapsed upon itself.

Your story needs a foundation. Something that builds the story naturally. Overall, what you described about what inspired this manga (a specific era) and what you are writing about doesn't line up.




 

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