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Author Topic: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio  (Read 4881 times)

HematoLogMeIn

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2016, 01:47:16 am »
I don't think that's the case, since sometimes I'll ideadump and get fifteen characters on a page with their own little panels. Then again, when I do that, I generally have an idea for the character in mind and a preset body type and color palette in mind. This was an older work and I'm not at all pleased with the quality of it, no thanks to my phone camera, but I feel that art speaks louder than words.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Who knows, though? Perhaps you have a point in that those characters have their own separate little panels and aren't interacting directly. That, and I will admit that I draw better on smaller areas, such as index cards or my 5x8" sketchbook. (That ideadump page there was on 9x12" paper and separated into 3"x6cm sections.) I often wonder if that's because I don't actually have any kind of desk I feel comfortable sitting down and drawing at, so I'm always on my bed or with a sketchbook in my lap. I've heard posture can contribute to skewing your drawings and making things look off-center.

HematoLogMeIn

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2016, 03:02:51 pm »
Update! I said I'd try to put something new out here by the end of the week, and I took Lumaria's idea and incorporated it into what my Skype friends and I have been going on about for some time now--and that's the idea of us in the universe of the game Borderlands. This is only the sketch for now, and it was done with 2H pencil in a somewhat poorly bound sketchbook, and it's amazing my phone camera picked up this much of the graphite. I see quite a few things that probably could've gone better, but, overall, not too bad of a Squad Pic I don't suppose. Besides that, getting the sort of complicated clothing style of Borderlands down was a fun little challenge.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Lumaria

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2016, 07:50:50 pm »
Quick question. Do you draw an outline to make the former of the body? And if you do, how detailed is it?


HematoLogMeIn

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2016, 09:58:25 pm »
I generally lightly draw guidelines for the body form. I think of them as fairly simple guidelines for figuring out how to put clothes on, but sometimes I'll follow muscle structure to help me flesh out something and make sure that it works together. In the case of that armored man in the back, though, I had already drawn a preliminary sketch on another page in the same pose to try to understand how the armor worked around the body for that pose, so I went ahead and focused on settling the armor on much more quickly.

When I work with guidelines, I tend to try to focus on the shapes that make up the character. Is the character thin and tall? Do they have a little chub? What is their muscle definition like? Their head shape? I try to pay particular attention to height because I understand that it's more than the character looking bigger and deals instead with extending the body and limbs or shortening them for how many "heads tall" they appear.

I guess it may be worth mentioning that when I draw guidelines, I usually start with the head, although the kneeling character there I actually started with the legs.

I just try to get my guidelines to work for what the pose is doing and make sure that the body looks proportionate. Keep it simple, add details later, but make sure that the details settle on the form that matches the character I'm portraying.

I hope that makes sense.

Lumaria

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2016, 01:51:57 am »


The reason why I ask is because there's literally no variation on the bodies. They all seem to have the exact same body types. Or some are so heavily flawed, I cant tell what body type they're trying to present.

There are several flaws in the anatomy. Perhaps drawing characters side by side will help you, but now I recommend you do something else right before you do that.

First: Keep trying to fix your outline. It doesn't look like you make much use of it. So study other outlines and continue to rework it until it's closers to what you wanted it to be. Also, you have be more detailed on it. As a beginner, you can't afford not to skip it. Those who use less complicated outlines are those who have a better grasp on how anatomy works.

(Additionally, I recommend that you study how clothes work. Look at many many different characters with different pieces of clothes and see how it all falls. How much clothes folds, and where it folds. All of that is to give am suggestion on what kind of texture they're weaping. Are they wearing something thick or something light? Not all clothes have the same folds, the same wind resistance or the same comfortability.

Second, I recommend drawing the same character repeatedly on the same piece of paper and each time you draw them, you show a different angle. Basically, I'm asking you to draw a character sheet/profile so you can gain better understanding of what your character actually looks like. That way you can indeed flaws faster.

After that, then I recommend drawing the different types of characters side by side. My original recommendation was to help you differentiate characters further, but if you don't have a good grasp of anatomy or how clothes work, you won't have a good chance of achieving it.



Here's a basic example of how clothes look like. But look at many other characters that have a certain fashion style that you are trying to achieve.

HematoLogMeIn

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2016, 02:55:05 am »
Forgive me, maybe I'm just having a little difficulty seeing these body types as carbon copies of one another, or maybe I'm only seeing what I want to see. Going from left to right on my page, the second and third characters look like totally different body types to me. One is shorter and a little more pudgy, and the one next to her is more masculine, taller, and has an overall thinner body type.

I do, however, consider myself to still be learning as far as anatomy and proportion and scale are concerned. I'll definitely take to your idea of drawing the same character in various views on the same page to see if that will help me develop my skill further. When I find time to focus, I'll definitely try that and share the results.

Lumaria

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2016, 06:20:22 am »
I can't tell because all the characters are severely flawed. None of the proportions are consistent. The third characters proportions are all over the place.

HematoLogMeIn

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2016, 01:54:10 pm »
I think I'm starting to understand what you see now. Yes, it actually explains why I've not been happy with my art progress and why, while I now feel comfortable putting characters into more relaxed poses, I can't seem to draw them on larger paper. Interesting.

Well, I'll finish this work anyway, since it's the group work of my friends and I. (They all told me what kind of designs they wanted, some with reference pictures from the internet, and two of them drawing their own basic outfits. I wonder if seeing their art so much makes me see more difference in my own, because if you want to talk about same face/same body syndrome, those two have a worse case of it.) After that, I'll start working on fixing the nitty-gritty.

Lumaria

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2016, 04:45:37 pm »
Which is why the outline is important. If it's detailed enough, you won't have to worry about inconsistencies.

The outline is there to help you make the body, not to fit clothes. The clothes should come last.

Crackhead Johny

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2016, 07:21:38 pm »
It looks great in my opinion. But I also thought it was some form of drawing based on legend of zelda for some reason.
I though short haired Link was being kissed by a man with Link's hair.
On further inspection I think they are supposed to be women.

I know the fix for this. A friend of mine explained how while his drawings of males were incredible, when he drew women he ended up with Lyle Alzado in drag.
He figured out the solution by looking at lots of playboy magazines. The main trick he figured out, other than reducing arm and leg size/musculature, is that when you draw your character's frame you flip the hips triangle up side down for females. *Boom* no more trannies.

As for the rest this looks like the standard "sticking point" with American manga artists. Often stuff gets to look like this in ~6th grade and never gets better.
The reason is that the artist is trying to draw manga from manga. Doing this, odds are it will never get better.
The solution is time consuming. It is a painful grind.
You do life drawing. You do it with a very critical eye. You want to exactly reproduce what you see. Yes, drawing a bowl of fruit sucks but it teaches this. After that you work on drawing naked people (because clothing is a whole other complication. And still lifes with artist's with artists mannequins. Drawing scenery is also critical unless you want to be the "I only do characters" artist. While I know a few who simply love to do back grounds they are in the incredible minority.
This is the huge thing digital gives you , take a pic, hit it with the anime filter, then color it and you have your back ground, then add characters which is what you wanted to draw anyway.
Of course after 9 hours day for a year or two trying to draw photo realistic people/stuff (10K hours to mastery), it may be a pain to find out you will then be spending a similar amount of time drawing manga until your own style evolves.
Remember if you can draw real humans perfectly, doing whatever, you can do any style you pretty much want to do. You can do rehashed DBZ for a commission and Liberatore/Serpieri/Bisley/Etc style stuff for your own work.

I think this is the book that my friend said, as stupid as it sounds, is the best book on the market for drawing characters. https://www.amazon.com/How-Draw-Comics-Marvel-Way/dp/0671530771/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk Unfortunately there are a few with similar names. I know it was marvel's how to draw comics or something, I think that is it. Just to check I just ordered is so I can let you know on Monday.

Basically with the manga what you are doing is drawing caricatures. If you can't draw real people, so they look like real people, your caricatures are going to suck.

Feel free to wreck some manga. Go hit craigslist and search for manga and see what you can find free/cheap. Then on each body pic draw in an artists frame. On portraits/face shots draw in a human skull to get an idea on how they are doing the caricature.

If you aren't doing anything for the next 20 years read through this whole thread. http://forums.penny-arcade.com/vanilla/discussion/105734
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 07:35:39 pm by Crackhead Johny »

Crackhead Johny

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2016, 07:37:04 pm »
I can't seem to draw them on larger paper. Interesting.
Smaller hides the flaws.

HematoLogMeIn

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2016, 08:18:33 pm »
As for the rest this looks like the standard "sticking point" with American manga artists. Often stuff gets to look like this in ~6th grade and never gets better.

The rest of your quote is extremely applicable, especially about the hip triangle, but this in particular strikes a chord with me, because when I try to draw on larger paper, it does feel like I haven't even improved at all since middle school.

I suppose I'll just have to start building from the ground up again, although when I'm looking directly at something, I don't have even a quarter of the trouble I have drawing from the mind. I prefer not to draw exactly what I see because it almost feels like "cheating", in a way, or like it wouldn't be "my" art. I guess I should grow out of that and start looking at it for what it is: a learning experience.

Thanks for the wake-up call, everyone. I've been stubborn for too many years about it.

HematoLogMeIn

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2016, 12:37:43 am »
Update: there are a lot of things wrong with this that I recognize now, for many reasons (the one that bugs me the most is the placement of Harley's second boot), but I figure this gives a much clearer view of what my coloring is like. Sadly, the colors don't show up true, but you guys probably get the picture at this point that my phone's camera sucks, so I won't really mention it after this. I'll also note that some of these designs, I didn't personally come up with. Either way, working on this with you guys pointing things out has really opened my eyes, and I'd be lying if I said sharing this with you again didn't make me a little anxious about what you might find in my coloring, but I will say that I like the complete version better than the sketched version.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Also: the rainbow thing was a freak and happy accident, really. My friend Ana likes the Megidos from Homestuck, so her base color was red. Jamie likes playing with fire, so yellows/oranges. Djinn is the most disciplined and militaristic of us, so greens. Harley is colorblind but her favorite color is blue, and my outfit was predetermined to be purple. Snek's outfit was preset with colors, so when I got to Harley in coloring I realized that it was going to be a rainbow anyway and decided to incorporate indigo into Koala's design. Considering that in our group, only one of us is straight, I find that ironically fitting.

I do love Borderland's graphics for their vibrant color and comic book inspired appearance. I hope my limited skill did it some justice.

Lumaria

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2016, 03:17:19 am »
The arts Tyler you have and the arts Tyler borderlands has aren't too similar. It looks like any general anime/manga futuristic clothing.

Borderlands definitely has a more messy look with few protagonists having a clean uniform design. Which I can see you are trying to achieve when I see the final colored version.

HematoLogMeIn

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Re: [Eventual 18+] HemaStudio
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2016, 03:47:12 am »
The arts Tyler you have and the arts Tyler borderlands has aren't too similar. It looks like any general anime/manga futuristic clothing.

Eh, to be fair, I don't particularly fancy myself to be a copycat artist. It has a similar reasoning to it as my hesitance to draw what I see from other art styles. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but I'm not too sure.

That aside, up until now I hadn't really thought about taking myself too seriously as an artist since I see it more as a hobby, but after sitting around here listening to you guys, I see why you created this place the way you did. I see now that I could be better, and that I could take this old hobby of mine and actually advance it, if I treat it right. I'm not sure I have the words to thank you for that.

 

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